Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 22:06     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.

Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.

Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.

At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.


I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.

NP. Thank you for being a S/T judge. I cannot for the life of me figure out what is wrong with the parents who would confront an official about a DQ ever, let alone at a summer swim B meet. Jesus Christ.


OMG- what is wrong with people. Thank you for volunteering!
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 19:29     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.

Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.

Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.

At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.


I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.


Your ref/admin ref should have reviewed the DQ with you so you wouldn’t have any doubt.


In the moment I didn't doubt my call. It was after the meet when they were complaining loudly about the call that I started to question it. It was an away meet so I don't know the Ref personally, since the Ref was from the hosting team. Oh well, glad to know I made the right call! Stroke and Turn is a thankless position!


Sorry that happened, it's after the fact, but I would notify the head of your league and let them notify the head coach and/or ref of the other team. It's only the beginning of the season, so that kind of behavior should be addressed before it gets worse. As a parent, thanks for being a s&t official. It's the best way for kids to learn. My kids swim club, not summer, and getting dq'd isn't fun, but it's part of the learning process. Every swimmer gets dq'd at some point.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 16:59     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.

Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.

Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.

At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.


I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.


Your ref/admin ref should have reviewed the DQ with you so you wouldn’t have any doubt.


In the moment I didn't doubt my call. It was after the meet when they were complaining loudly about the call that I started to question it. It was an away meet so I don't know the Ref personally, since the Ref was from the hosting team. Oh well, glad to know I made the right call! Stroke and Turn is a thankless position!
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 16:50     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.

Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.

Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.

At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.


I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.


Your ref/admin ref should have reviewed the DQ with you so you wouldn’t have any doubt.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 16:23     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
OP thanks for volunteering and FWIW I’m a S&T and would have DQd had I seen that

As for those parents: I’d just say “Thanks for the input, glad to know you’ll be getting certified and volunteering next summer if you’re unhappy”

Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 15:16     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
The parents need to understand it's a B meet. The team's coach still can see the swimmer's time ex-DQ and can use that to make his/her own assessment. Last year, my son DQ'ed at the first B meet in breaststroke (due to hands coming below hips). The coach had watched his swim and did not see anything wrong (possibly it was a new S/T judge mistakenly writing the wrong lane) . I would never have dreamed of saying anything to the judge. I'm just grateful they step up to do a mostly thankless job.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 14:29     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Thank you OP!

We have S&T judges that don't bother to DQ kids and then they have a legal time from a B meet. This is also why B meet times are taken with a grain of salt on our team. They oftentimes are unreliable data.

I wish S&T would actually DQ.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 14:18     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Op, I am a S&T too and I don’t engage parents who have an opinion. They don’t have the birds eye view. Breast stroke is the worst stroke to judge, too. The B meets do get better as the season goes on.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 14:01     Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.

Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.

Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.

At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.


I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.


You made the right call on the DQ.

If swimmers or their parents try to talk to you about any calls at all...do not engage. Your only answer should be "talk to your team rep" and then the team rep can only talk to the referee. No one other than the referee should be talking to the stroke and turn judges.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 13:20     Subject: Re:Swim question re: breaststroke
OP- if a swimmer or their parents are talking to you about a DQ- you need to refuse to engage and immediately alert the ref and I would also tell your team reps. That behavior needs to be nipped in the bud.
(I mean you can be human- sometimes I explain to a parent who is timing why their kid dq'd- if they ask me nicely, but I certainly don't engage in a debate).