Anonymous
Post 06/10/2023 00:56     Subject: Re:Parent who never matured but just grew old
NP here. Psychological therapy was never a real option for many older people. My own parents are like this. They never lived in their own. They never learned to make choices based on their own intuition. My 70-year-old mother can’t hardly decide what to order at a restaurant. She’s accustomed to seeking the opinions of friends and family or a local priest. The most outside guidance she ever received was probably church based pre-Cana and a weekend of Catholic Marriage Encounter which were most likely just echo chambers of church doctrine. Many of these older folks were never asked nor expected to make choices on their own, so no surprise they’re stuck at in their teen years or at best early 20s.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2023 07:47     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the replies even the ones difficult for me to read.
His caretaking wasn’t a sign of strength of character or maturity. He was like a bad paid caretaker - did what he was told to do and hated it. There was no love or responsibility on his actions, he was just an automaton basically. I am not the one to judge, I know, but just describing what I saw.
Mother was mentally ill and part of it was refusal to see doctors, she inflicted her own misery on herself.
Paradoxically he would have been more of an adult if he actually left her and maybe we would have at least 50% of the time spent in a normal home. But no, he would never dare.
I try not to judge, I do.
I am trying to take care of him as much as I can, including moving him closer to me, that’s not a problem. The problem is I thought he was a capable adult and turns out he either isn’t anymore or never was.


Oh man, you sound really awful. So, he was doing crappy job taking care of your mom, what did you do? Other than throwing stones from the sidelines? And here you are judging your father...


The OP hasn’t even given an example. She’s just saying that he’s incapable of taking care of himself. Which seems impossible since he spent 30 years taking care of both himself and a mentally ill spouse, without any input or support from OP.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2023 07:40     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
I find it ironic that you are posting about lack of maturity. Grow up and I say it kindly.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2023 07:35     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the replies even the ones difficult for me to read.
His caretaking wasn’t a sign of strength of character or maturity. He was like a bad paid caretaker - did what he was told to do and hated it. There was no love or responsibility on his actions, he was just an automaton basically. I am not the one to judge, I know, but just describing what I saw.
Mother was mentally ill and part of it was refusal to see doctors, she inflicted her own misery on herself.
Paradoxically he would have been more of an adult if he actually left her and maybe we would have at least 50% of the time spent in a normal home. But no, he would never dare.
I try not to judge, I do.
I am trying to take care of him as much as I can, including moving him closer to me, that’s not a problem. The problem is I thought he was a capable adult and turns out he either isn’t anymore or never was.


Oh man, you sound really awful. So, he was doing crappy job taking care of your mom, what did you do? Other than throwing stones from the sidelines? And here you are judging your father...
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2023 07:19     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:
It's really sad that caregivers would be disparaged in that way.

He has the mental make-up to be loyal and obedient, and he suffered from being under the thumb of a difficult person for decades. Now he's "free", he may have lost any momentum to take any sort of initiative, because it was denied him for much for his adult life. Think of him like a prisoner who has been released from prison.

Have some compassion and understanding, OP.



It’s a sign of weakness to marry someone who puts them under their thumb, and then remains in this set up for decades. Then ice the oppressor dies, this person attaches himself to someone else to manage life and emotions for them. If you haven’t experienced this up close, you really don’t understand how it makes you lose respect for the oppressed person.
Anonymous
Post 06/07/2023 12:11     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Really OP you don't need to process anything here. Just keep moving forward and help him how you can. This is an opportunity to redefine your relationship without the looming shadow of a crazy mother.

My parents had the same set up except my dad died suddenly of a heart attack leaving the crazy mother behind. Much worse scenario.
Anonymous
Post 06/06/2023 21:01     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old

It's really sad that caregivers would be disparaged in that way.

He has the mental make-up to be loyal and obedient, and he suffered from being under the thumb of a difficult person for decades. Now he's "free", he may have lost any momentum to take any sort of initiative, because it was denied him for much for his adult life. Think of him like a prisoner who has been released from prison.

Have some compassion and understanding, OP.

Anonymous
Post 06/06/2023 20:56     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the replies even the ones difficult for me to read.
His caretaking wasn’t a sign of strength of character or maturity. He was like a bad paid caretaker - did what he was told to do and hated it. There was no love or responsibility on his actions, he was just an automaton basically. I am not the one to judge, I know, but just describing what I saw.
Mother was mentally ill and part of it was refusal to see doctors, she inflicted her own misery on herself.
Paradoxically he would have been more of an adult if he actually left her and maybe we would have at least 50% of the time spent in a normal home. But no, he would never dare.
I try not to judge, I do.
I am trying to take care of him as much as I can, including moving him closer to me, that’s not a problem. The problem is I thought he was a capable adult and turns out he either isn’t anymore or never was.


Nonsense. Nobody takes care of an extremely difficult disabled person for ten years because they were "told what to do" and were just a robot. He had the strength and maturity to keep doing a hard job, day in and day out, for ten years. That is the sign of a strong, mature person - and a loving, devoted husband. A weak, immature husband would have abandoned his wife or put her in a facility. And yet you say abandoning her like that is what an "adult" would have done? NO, NO, NO.

"The problem is I thought he was a capable adult and turns out he either isn’t anymore or never was."

No, the problem is that you very clearly do not know what a mature, capable adult is. (That's a sign that you are not one.)

And the other problem is that you are, for some unknown reason, incapable of giving your father credit for what he did. In fact you are blaming him for being a good man. You need to sit down and think about that.

What I'm also seeing here is that you are inventing rationalizations for not taking care of him. You want to park him in a facility at some point because you are unwilling to do the difficult things he did. When you do that, don't pretend that's the mature, adult thing to do. That's just you making bs excuses for your own weakness.


+1 to this and the other posts stating the same. Seriously OP you come off really poorly. I assume since he took care of your mom he can adequately cook, clean and take care of himself. That he doesn't like those cultural things isn't a reason to look down on him.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2023 15:53     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the replies even the ones difficult for me to read.
His caretaking wasn’t a sign of strength of character or maturity. He was like a bad paid caretaker - did what he was told to do and hated it. There was no love or responsibility on his actions, he was just an automaton basically. I am not the one to judge, I know, but just describing what I saw.
Mother was mentally ill and part of it was refusal to see doctors, she inflicted her own misery on herself.
Paradoxically he would have been more of an adult if he actually left her and maybe we would have at least 50% of the time spent in a normal home. But no, he would never dare.
I try not to judge, I do.
I am trying to take care of him as much as I can, including moving him closer to me, that’s not a problem. The problem is I thought he was a capable adult and turns out he either isn’t anymore or never was.


You dad has chronic burnout from taking care of a mentally ill person . He felt morally obliged because he is the husband--that was his decision to make not yours.
Are parents of mentally ill children under the age 18 morally responsible to take care of them? Go to the special needs forum and see what their burnout is. Yes--they can try to have the kids become warden of the state but few want to go that route.
some may say the morally and ethically right thing is to stay with sick spouse--even if you are an atheist and don't believe in "in sickness and in health".


What makes you think atheists don't believe in "in sickness and in health?"


You are right, it is about your morality code.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2023 15:43     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Being a longtime caregiver for a spouse with mental illness and physical immobilty causes trauma that only other caregivers can understand. Their anxiety and trauma magnifies after the passing of their spouse, as their single-minded focus on one person has been taken away. My mom was a caregiver for over 10 years and even though my dad passed many years ago, she’s still lost without him.
Anonymous
Post 06/02/2023 01:19     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not really looking for advice here; mostly trying to process and see if someone else has experienced it.
My mentally ill mother passed away last year. My dad was codependent for about 40 years, and was her caregiver for the past 10 years or so as she lost mobility. She was a very difficult person, tried to keep him away from us (my brother and me), and almost ran him into the ground.
Anyway, for the past year I have been rebuilding my relationship with dad after about 30 years of being kept at arms length and living far away.

What I discovered after the initial happiness of being able to talk to him again was that he basically seemed to have sprung from being a young adult (he was always a bit immature and weak though a good dad) to being an elderly person.
It’s like he was never a mature, strong adult. Honestly it’s like he is Rip Van Winkle and woke up after about 30 years.
He goes from thinking he is 27 to mourning the fact that he isn’t, he doesn’t know much about contemporary cultural events - newer books or movies, that sort of thing. He is also pretty anxious, spends his days puttering around and watching YouTube videos. Honestly my teenage son seems more mature at times. Luckily he is also pretty easy going and funny.

I am just not sure how to process it. It’s like my dad disappeared when he was young and then suddenly re-emerged as an old man needing care and guidance.
I know he’s had a hard life and I need to be compassionate but it’s just so…baffling?


Sounds like you hardly interacted with him for 30 years, so he probably did have an in between phase but you just missed it.


Yeah this might be true! It’s still sad but not as sad I guess
Anonymous
Post 06/02/2023 01:07     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the replies even the ones difficult for me to read.
His caretaking wasn’t a sign of strength of character or maturity. He was like a bad paid caretaker - did what he was told to do and hated it. There was no love or responsibility on his actions, he was just an automaton basically. I am not the one to judge, I know, but just describing what I saw.
Mother was mentally ill and part of it was refusal to see doctors, she inflicted her own misery on herself.
Paradoxically he would have been more of an adult if he actually left her and maybe we would have at least 50% of the time spent in a normal home. But no, he would never dare.
I try not to judge, I do.
I am trying to take care of him as much as I can, including moving him closer to me, that’s not a problem. The problem is I thought he was a capable adult and turns out he either isn’t anymore or never was.


You dad has chronic burnout from taking care of a mentally ill person . He felt morally obliged because he is the husband--that was his decision to make not yours.
Are parents of mentally ill children under the age 18 morally responsible to take care of them? Go to the special needs forum and see what their burnout is. Yes--they can try to have the kids become warden of the state but few want to go that route.
some may say the morally and ethically right thing is to stay with sick spouse--even if you are an atheist and don't believe in "in sickness and in health".


What makes you think atheists don't believe in "in sickness and in health?"
Anonymous
Post 06/01/2023 09:57     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:Not really looking for advice here; mostly trying to process and see if someone else has experienced it.
My mentally ill mother passed away last year. My dad was codependent for about 40 years, and was her caregiver for the past 10 years or so as she lost mobility. She was a very difficult person, tried to keep him away from us (my brother and me), and almost ran him into the ground.
Anyway, for the past year I have been rebuilding my relationship with dad after about 30 years of being kept at arms length and living far away.

What I discovered after the initial happiness of being able to talk to him again was that he basically seemed to have sprung from being a young adult (he was always a bit immature and weak though a good dad) to being an elderly person.
It’s like he was never a mature, strong adult. Honestly it’s like he is Rip Van Winkle and woke up after about 30 years.
He goes from thinking he is 27 to mourning the fact that he isn’t, he doesn’t know much about contemporary cultural events - newer books or movies, that sort of thing. He is also pretty anxious, spends his days puttering around and watching YouTube videos. Honestly my teenage son seems more mature at times. Luckily he is also pretty easy going and funny.

I am just not sure how to process it. It’s like my dad disappeared when he was young and then suddenly re-emerged as an old man needing care and guidance.
I know he’s had a hard life and I need to be compassionate but it’s just so…baffling?


Sounds like you hardly interacted with him for 30 years, so he probably did have an in between phase but you just missed it.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2023 17:32     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:Your mother chose him because he did as he was told. A stronger man would have left her and she would have likely turned her kids against their father. Over the decades she broke him down more.
What was your father's childhood like? I'm going to guess it was a difficult one with a very stern father and lots of siblings.


She was complaining about him all the time and trying to turn us against him - he didn’t even need to leave her for that. We could see through it though.

Dad is an only. Nothing too bad in his childhood afaik. I think he is just sensitive and on the anxious side by nature.

I like the idea that he actually did the best he could under the circumstances. Divorce and shared custody wasn’t normalized then and there. At least he didn’t just run off.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2023 17:26     Subject: Parent who never matured but just grew old
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here, I am actually happy to hear that he may have done the right thing. It would have been much worse of course if he just left all three of us. I had this fantasy of him taking us kids away from the other parent who made our life very hard but it’s just a fantasy, I understand.
No I am not looking for excuses not to care for him - that I can tell you 100%.
I do have difficulty processing some feelings for him which is why I am here. It’s easier for me to see him as a good man, so this thread helps with that.


It sounds like you are really avoiding grieving the mom you never had but wanted, You are projecting your anger toward your mom for not being the mom you needed onto him.
Loose the anger and start grieving..it sucks not having the right mom....but own it, feel it and grow from that.


No, I’ve already done all this in therapy. My mother, I have let it go, it was her illness. I am just happy it’s over.
With dad, I just need to come to terms with who he is and was. Trying to process it now.