Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

How are the courses at JMU easier?

Easier in the sense of less competition. Easier for a top student to be at the top of the curve.

Where did you see that either school still grades undergrads on a curve?

DP: I'm a professor. It's human nature to grade somewhat on a curve. A professor is going to give some As. They give As to the best students in the class, Bs to the next level etc. It may not be a mathematical curve, but you adjust your teaching so there's a distribution there. I've taught organic chemistry at schools of different levels of selectivity and it was most definitely a more challenging course at more selective schools. Both the way I approached the content, the supports I gave, what I expected and how hard it was to earn an A. It was a challenge when I moved from teaching at a very rigorous school to a less rigorous one--I had to add a lot more review guides, structure tests differently, and give a lot more partial credit etc. and then still adjust the grades upwards from what I was used to.

Some med programs are strict about grade cut-offs, but that's changing--they look more at the rigor of the undergrad now too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

How are the courses at JMU easier?

Easier in the sense of less competition. Easier for a top student to be at the top of the curve.

Where did you see that either school still grades undergrads on a curve?

According to my freshman OrgChem I at W&M was graded on a curve. Biology wasn't. So it might depend on the course?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

How are the courses at JMU easier?

Easier in the sense of less competition. Easier for a top student to be at the top of the curve.

Where did you see that either school still grades undergrads on a curve?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Not easy anywhere, but there is a difference.

Well known if you read any of the pre-med advising boards that there is no such thing as a boost based on where an applicant went undergrad. I wish there was- my kid at a T20 had a much more challenging orgo class than my other kid's roommate at JMU or her HS bff at VCU. But no brownie points for having gone to a T20. Hopefully the tougher curriculum will help net a higher MCAT score.
The general advice is go undergrad where you can get the highest BCPM GPA and overall GPA.

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Anonymous wrote:I think W&M (and probably UVA) have somewhat higher medical school acceptance rates than schools like JMU, CNU, and VT. But much of this may be that the average MCAT score of applicants was higher because their average SAT score coming in was higher. They are very likely correlated. The real question is if you could take the same student (with the same entering SAT) through all these schools, would there be a difference in medical school application success?

In my experience, there is a huge melt in pre-med. You may want to look at schools from the perspective of whether or not the aspiring pre-med will get discouraged in that environment. In other words, would they feel comfortable and motivated?

What do you mean by "melt"?

Losing interest or the will to stick with pre-med. The melt is the difference between the # of students entering intending to apply to medical school and the number that actually applies.

Malcolm Gladwell attributes part of this to the fact that being a small fish in a big pond wears kids' self esteem down.

He thinks at this age, it is better to be a big fish in a small pond.

Here is a blog from medical school admission advisors describing why UC Berkeley and other UCs may not be the best for a pre-med. Some of it is small fish, big pond, but some part of it is simply not having the best environment for pre-meds.

https://www.savvypremed.com/blog/how-to-choose-a-college-to-be-pre-med

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Anonymous wrote:https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/william-and-mary-med-school-acceptance-rate/1285594

Generally our students are accepted into medical school at rates about 15-20% higher than the national average (which is usually in the 40s). If you have questions about pre-med at W&M, contact Dr. Bev Sher, our pre-med advisor. She’s a great resource for students.

Isn’t this stat gamed by colleges refusing to write premed advising committee letters for certain students?

I don't think W&M does that.

But I have heard of schools (not W & M per se) ensuring high admit rates to med school but strongly discouraging weaker students not to stay in that "major."

W&M does not do that. Some schools will report medical school acceptance rate as XX% of those with 3.5+ GPA or XX% of those receiving a committee recommendation. You need to read the fine print.

To ensure a high med school acceptance percentage, schools may not support you applying to med school if they believe you will not get in. I believe Swarthmore, for example, does this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/william-and-mary-med-school-acceptance-rate/1285594

Generally our students are accepted into medical school at rates about 15-20% higher than the national average (which is usually in the 40s). If you have questions about pre-med at W&M, contact Dr. Bev Sher, our pre-med advisor. She’s a great resource for students.

Isn’t this stat gamed by colleges refusing to write premed advising committee letters for certain students?

I don't think W&M does that.

But I have heard of schools (not W & M per se) ensuring high admit rates to med school but strongly discouraging weaker students not to stay in that "major."

W&M does not do that. Some schools will report medical school acceptance rate as XX% of those with 3.5+ GPA or XX% of those receiving a committee recommendation. You need to read the fine print.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/william-and-mary-med-school-acceptance-rate/1285594

Generally our students are accepted into medical school at rates about 15-20% higher than the national average (which is usually in the 40s). If you have questions about pre-med at W&M, contact Dr. Bev Sher, our pre-med advisor. She’s a great resource for students.

Isn’t this stat gamed by colleges refusing to write premed advising committee letters for certain students?

I don't think W&M does that.

But I have heard of schools (not W & M per se) ensuring high admit rates to med school but strongly discouraging weaker students not to stay in that "major."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think W&M (and probably UVA) have somewhat higher medical school acceptance rates than schools like JMU, CNU, and VT. But much of this may be that the average MCAT score of applicants was higher because their average SAT score coming in was higher. They are very likely correlated. The real question is if you could take the same student (with the same entering SAT) through all these schools, would there be a difference in medical school application success?

In my experience, there is a huge melt in pre-med. You may want to look at schools from the perspective of whether or not the aspiring pre-med will get discouraged in that environment. In other words, would they feel comfortable and motivated?

What do you mean by "melt"?

Losing interest or the will to stick with pre-med. The melt is the difference between the # of students entering intending to apply to medical school and the number that actually applies.

Malcolm Gladwell attributes part of this to the fact that being a small fish in a big pond wears kids' self esteem down.

He thinks at this age, it is better to be a big fish in a small pond.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

How are the courses at JMU easier?

Easier in the sense of less competition. Easier for a top student to be at the top of the curve.

+1 Grades are curved in most STEM courses – the competition makes a huge difference in “how hard” the class is.

Those proud W&M grads that suffered through a time of significant grade deflation and adhere to the motto "W&M: where your best hasn't been good enough since 1693" or "They hand out Cs like candy and As like Nobel prizes.

Might not be literally true but the school does have a solid reputation and sends a greater than average number of students on to professional degrees.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

This really does not sound true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

How are the courses at JMU easier?

Easier in the sense of less competition. Easier for a top student to be at the top of the curve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

Sorry, they are not easier. There is zero substantiation for your claim. And JMU's nursing school is notoriously difficult to get into.
DP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you have to earn your grades at W&M but medical schools and other graduate programs recognize this, so a 3.4 at W&M is equivalent to a 3.8 at JMU.

For a more quantitative measure the admit rate for W&M is 15-20% higher than the national average for medical school.

You think premed courses at, say, JMU are easy?

Easier yes. But premed courses such as organic chemistry are more challenging than most college courses.

How are the courses at JMU easier?