“Betty, do you want our help with this - yes or no?”

If no, wish her well and encourage her to make sure she has the papers handy for her own sake.

If yes, say “We can come in 2 weeks. Dig out all the paperwork you have and we’ll go through it. The more you have together then the easier it will be. It’s important that you have all the authorizations you need to manage the household should anything happen to him. Let’s get that set up for you.”

OP you are not pushy at all. As the POA for two other people, you get it. You see the disaster coming and you want to prevent it because you know very well it will all come back to you at some point.

My guess is that the will might have some things in it they don't want to make public? Could that be the reason she is hesitating?

What I'd try to do is appeal not to logic but to emotions. "I love you guys so much and I can tell the situation is hard, please let me help. I cry at night thinking about you two." Talk to the wife and tell her you care about her and FIL. Explain that if she passes before him that you can't do anything to take care of the FIL without an AMD/POA. Furthermore, who will take care of her? I would suggest redoing the AMD/POA and leaving her as primary, but you and DH as co-POAs if she passes. She might agree to that? If the will is the stumbling block, don't even bring up being an executor or wanting to see it at this stage.

What you don't want to happen is for the wife to pass and the legal documents only specify her with no fallbacks. Then you're looking at a truly bad situation where you need to petition for guardianship of the father.

He's probably at a stage where he is early enough that he can enter into a new POA, etc. but that time will slip away soon. If a neurologist will sign off that he is competent, then he can still get these docs redone. Doctors are often more sympathetic because they understand how much care patients need and how crucial these documents are.

It *is* optional and she *does not* “need to cooperate” and the sooner you grasp this, the better you will be able to negotiate with her.

Your FIL may now be cognitively unable to complete estate paperwork, which it sounds like you have not considered.

Push them as much as you possibly can! Why should she have the money? Of course you try and fight for what’s yours

OK It sounds like the "help" your MIL wants is financial. I'd ignore that.

What difference does a will make? And it is up to his wife to make POA decisions. If he dies intestate, it will just all go to her.

MIL wrote DH a long email asking for help. For goodness sake, I haven’t said a word to anyone at any point and was asking for advice which I took!

To the kind PP’s, points taken. I told DH that he could consider telling the wife he can only help if she lets him. DH said it won’t change anything and he will just wait until things get worse, then it will be impossible to change the paperwork, and he will be off the hook with no legal role to play. I said OK and don’t plan to bring it up again.

Meanwhile my heart hurts for the FIL who is ailing and has a wife yelling at him all the time, pretending he’s just being lazy and forgetful. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

WTF, OP? You can't just do something you have **no legal rights to do** by announcing that "this isn't optional" and "she needs to cooperate". That's not how the law works. You sound like a nightmare pushy judgmental DIL and your bad judgment is going to damage your DH's relationship with his father.

MIL is the wife. Repeat this to yourself: she is the wife. And she is competent. Being competent doesn't mean you never make bad choices or take any risks. Sometimes with older adults you just have to wait until something serious happens for them to open their eyes or for you to have some leverage.

I would suspect MIL is either trying to keep you out because you're a pushy boundary-crasher. Or else they're broke or she's broke or their finances aren't actually separate, or she's not as mentally sharp as you think. But if you keep on being pushy you'll get nowhere and only damage your relationships more. Give your DH a break, there is literally nothing he can actually do about this.

Anonymous wrote:Let it go. Your DH cannot just railroad his way into this. As someone who has a dad I’m not super close to and my dad is also remarried to someone I’m not close with, I would lose my mind if my husband kept pressuring me to get more involved when I literally have no ability to control any of this. Your DH tried and got nowhere. You cannot kidnap your FIL and get paperwork signed by someone no longer competent. Good grief.

+1 You have a husband is emotionally and physically disabled. Your family cannot take this on if they are uncoordperative. Your FIL made the choice not to get things in order all those years. He chose this wife. I went into rescue mode far too long and all it did was do in my health and stress my family. As the person says, you throw a life preserver, but if they refuse to take it you don't risk your family life to jump in the ocean to save them.

Let it go. Your DH cannot just railroad his way into this. As someone who has a dad I’m not super close to and my dad is also remarried to someone I’m not close with, I would lose my mind if my husband kept pressuring me to get more involved when I literally have no ability to control any of this. Your DH tried and got nowhere. You cannot kidnap your FIL and get paperwork signed by someone no longer competent. Good grief.

OP - You have a hard balancing act to handle as you need to weigh just how much you DH could really handle in the future if he is in the middle if a bad episode with as you describe “crippling depression” and you also do not want to add to his stress. It may be important to see that DH has a therapist he can be in touch with if needed to navigate increasing pressures with his father.

In trying to get things sorted out with his wife, is there any chance she would accept a third party such as a mediator or a geriatric manager to help her and DH work through issues that will put all in a better working relationship. His dad may well need help brought in to take pressure off the wife. It seems both can use help with basic finances and simple thing as setting up bill pay with their bank. And the thorny issue of legal affairs, too.

In this case you may well have to be the one setting limits for the well-being of your family’s financial and emotional state. You may need to realize that at times your husband may be unable to be an equal in decision-making so you do need to be sure your ducks are in a row, too. It is fine to speak clearly that you two may not be able to help his dad.

(should be "incapacitating event")

PP here, just checking back in. I'm glad it resonated, but sometimes things change unexpectedly, too. I trust you will know what to do.

Big hugs. It's hard, especially when you can see what impact someone else's decisions will have on you and your family, and they absolutely refuse to acknowledge it.

The best piece of advice I have is that if either of them are hospitalized from a fall or some other inspecting event, move quickly. You want to talk to a social worker ASAP about the situation and your limitations in helping, including physically. Push as respectfully but consistently as you can for an OT assessment of safety in their home before discharge to home. It's likely they have been making a lot of things they are unable to keep up on, not just bills.

Good luck. If I may offer a little bit of grace? It is a gift to stay present with one another, as you can, through these difficult times. It's okay to have good boundaries about money, and remember that isn't the only way you can show kindness and caring.

Don't jump in and down yourself trying to save them -- throw a life preserver instead. They have to pick it up. You know this. Just a reminder.