Listen to the school. Lots of kids overshoot the ED and come a long way down for RD

If you have a strong ED2 choice, I would take the gamble.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYC private school ds with a UW 3.9 GPA, all top rigor classes, two varsity sports and a bunch of solid ECs (nothing hook worthy), part-time job during the year and full time counselor in summer loves a program at Northwestern. His SATs don't look like they will crack 1480 since he doesn't do well on timed tests. Taking them the last time in June. He would be happy at Michigan or Wisco (his school sends a bunch there every year) but wants Northwestern. Is this a waste of an ED? his school is trying to steer him elsewhere and is saying scores not high enough. Would you try and go test optional? or submit those? Or be realistic with him and say if he really wants to ED a school he should look elsewhere?

An important factor regarding your son's chances for admission to Northwestern University is that he "loves a program at Northwestern". Your son needs to let Northwestern admissions know this and explain why.

High school counselors priority is to get all students accepted to a college or university; typically, they are not concerned about fighting for one's top choice school. Lots of turnover among high school college counselors.

If you want to share the particular program, I will try to suggest alternatives. It would also be helpful to know the schools suggested by his college counselor.

Regarding your son's academic requirements, he has what appears to be a high GPA in the most rigorous classes. Without an actual standardized test score (ACT or SAT), it is difficult to comment on test optional versus submission of test scores.

op: Thank you. He is very interested in a program called MMSS. It is a degree program that uses a mathmatical approach to social science. His coursework and ECs support a lot of the directions it goes. He also wants a school with a golf course and sports/school spirit feel and not too small. He does not want to go far south. College counselor thinks UMich, Vandy, Maryland/GW(he likes politics and DC)/Wisco as safer choices. Tufts is on the list for other reasons.

Apply to NU, it's an amazing school. However know that MMSS is highly competitive, beyond just getting into NU. Avg SAT is well over 1520 and ACT 35. So not sure if applying TO to a program like that will work, then again you definately do not want to submit his scores when it is so far below for the program. I'd try to find out if kids get accepted into this program going TO (I don't care or have time to dig deeper than a google search).

Anonymous wrote:his school is trying to steer him elsewhere and is saying scores not high enough

This is what you're paying for, OP. Why are you asking a bunch of randos on an anonymous message board? You already have your answer. Take their advice and apply elsewhere.

+1

I'd listen to your school - they know the history, they know the peer competition within his class.... I wish our CCO would share useful information like this! Sure - still apply RD - but only apply ED if you are willing to throw ED1 away. Pay very close attention to 2nd/3rd choice options and whether those require ED for a decent chance.

Anonymous wrote:I would have him rank his top choices. Assuming Northwestern is his top choice, what are his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and would Northwestern ED mean giving up ED somewhere else more realistic? In other words, what would his strategy look like if he doesn't apply ED to Northwestern, what would be his ED1 and ED2.

It's hard to say more than 3.9/TO is in the ballpark of possible. So, assume ED to Northwestern will not work out, and come up with an ED2 strategy in the event of deferral and rejection.

As long as there is a satisfactory application strategy following ED rejection (and deferral, which I'd treat as a rejection) from Northwestern, and he really wants to go for it anyway, then he should go ahead and try.

My junior's top choice at the moment is Northwestern. We will see where his preferences stand in the fall, but if it's still his top choice, he will probably ED. 4.0 uw/1540 (plus grad school double legacy, if that even matters). And we really don't know what his chances would be. My point is that even with top stats, there is so much uncertainty. Have your ducks in a row for Plan B.

not a factor

I would have him rank his top choices. Assuming Northwestern is his top choice, what are his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and would Northwestern ED mean giving up ED somewhere else more realistic? In other words, what would his strategy look like if he doesn't apply ED to Northwestern, what would be his ED1 and ED2.

It's hard to say more than 3.9/TO is in the ballpark of possible. So, assume ED to Northwestern will not work out, and come up with an ED2 strategy in the event of deferral and rejection.

As long as there is a satisfactory application strategy following ED rejection (and deferral, which I'd treat as a rejection) from Northwestern, and he really wants to go for it anyway, then he should go ahead and try.

My junior's top choice at the moment is Northwestern. We will see where his preferences stand in the fall, but if it's still his top choice, he will probably ED. 4.0 uw/1540 (plus grad school double legacy, if that even matters). And we really don't know what his chances would be. My point is that even with top stats, there is so much uncertainty. Have your ducks in a row for Plan B.

If NW is his top choice, he should ED there. His stats aren't laughable and he has a better chance ED than RD.

To be fair, the standardized testing is very low for Northwestern and according to the OP, there isn't anything that stands out about their potential application. So a "reasonable" profile, but on the low end of a single digit admission school to begin with.

I reject the premise of “wasting” ED just because the odds of admission are long. You apply ED to a school you feel passionate about, have a reasonable profile for, and are 100% confident you want to attend.

Your son has a reasonable profile for NU ED. As long as he goes into it fully aware of the odds and ready with back-up plans—and as long as he’s SURE he wants to go there—he should apply ED.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYC private school ds with a UW 3.9 GPA, all top rigor classes, two varsity sports and a bunch of solid ECs (nothing hook worthy), part-time job during the year and full time counselor in summer loves a program at Northwestern. His SATs don't look like they will crack 1480 since he doesn't do well on timed tests. Taking them the last time in June. He would be happy at Michigan or Wisco (his school sends a bunch there every year) but wants Northwestern. Is this a waste of an ED? his school is trying to steer him elsewhere and is saying scores not high enough. Would you try and go test optional? or submit those? Or be realistic with him and say if he really wants to ED a school he should look elsewhere?

An important factor regarding your son's chances for admission to Northwestern University is that he "loves a program at Northwestern". Your son needs to let Northwestern admissions know this and explain why.

High school counselors priority is to get all students accepted to a college or university; typically, they are not concerned about fighting for one's top choice school. Lots of turnover among high school college counselors.

If you want to share the particular program, I will try to suggest alternatives. It would also be helpful to know the schools suggested by his college counselor.

Regarding your son's academic requirements, he has what appears to be a high GPA in the most rigorous classes. Without an actual standardized test score (ACT or SAT), it is difficult to comment on test optional versus submission of test scores.

op: Thank you. He is very interested in a program called MMSS. It is a degree program that uses a mathmatical approach to social science. His coursework and ECs support a lot of the directions it goes. He also wants a school with a golf course and sports/school spirit feel and not too small. He does not want to go far south. College counselor thinks UMich, Vandy, Maryland/GW(he likes politics and DC)/Wisco as safer choices. Tufts is on the list for other reasons.

Of these schools, Tufts is probably the one to go ED. They accepted over 30 percent of ED applicants this cycle. Vandy accepted only 16 percent and NW accepted 20percent. Michigan offers only early action, same for Maryland.

You could do NW ED1 (as long as kid ok with possibility of early rejection) and Tufts ED2, and early action at the public schools.

That's a cool major, and if he can make a compelling case in essays, why not try to get in ED? Just as long as he understands that his chances are still pretty slim.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:his school is trying to steer him elsewhere and is saying scores not high enough

This is what you're paying for, OP. Why are you asking a bunch of randos on an anonymous message board? You already have your answer. Take their advice and apply elsewhere.

op: I think like many private schools, ours tries to push the kids toward the "easiest" path for everyone. They prefer for non-legacy/recruited athletes to go ED to somewhere that is a high target. We saw it happen a lot this year so are trying to see how much weight we should give their advice.

This is the best strategy in the current environment. Many schools take the majority of class in ED and RD acceptance rates have been super low the last two cycles.

For what it’s worth, my private school senior did not get into any school our counselor said was unlikely, and also did not get into some schools that were matches.

OP, your kid can apply ED to NU and EA to UM and Wisconsin (please don't call it Wisco) -

Here is the thing, Northwestern is on the Quarter system, or trimesters. If your kid has trouble with timed tests and an intense pace, a Quarter system would be a disaster.

Something to think about.

Also, UM and UW are not gimme's with your kid's record. Be sure to have some actual safeties in mind

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYC private school ds with a UW 3.9 GPA, all top rigor classes, two varsity sports and a bunch of solid ECs (nothing hook worthy), part-time job during the year and full time counselor in summer loves a program at Northwestern. His SATs don't look like they will crack 1480 since he doesn't do well on timed tests. Taking them the last time in June. He would be happy at Michigan or Wisco (his school sends a bunch there every year) but wants Northwestern. Is this a waste of an ED? his school is trying to steer him elsewhere and is saying scores not high enough. Would you try and go test optional? or submit those? Or be realistic with him and say if he really wants to ED a school he should look elsewhere?

An important factor regarding your son's chances for admission to Northwestern University is that he "loves a program at Northwestern". Your son needs to let Northwestern admissions know this and explain why.

High school counselors priority is to get all students accepted to a college or university; typically, they are not concerned about fighting for one's top choice school. Lots of turnover among high school college counselors.

If you want to share the particular program, I will try to suggest alternatives. It would also be helpful to know the schools suggested by his college counselor.

Regarding your son's academic requirements, he has what appears to be a high GPA in the most rigorous classes. Without an actual standardized test score (ACT or SAT), it is difficult to comment on test optional versus submission of test scores.

op: Thank you. He is very interested in a program called MMSS. It is a degree program that uses a mathmatical approach to social science. His coursework and ECs support a lot of the directions it goes. He also wants a school with a golf course and sports/school spirit feel and not too small. He does not want to go far south. College counselor thinks UMich, Vandy, Maryland/GW(he likes politics and DC)/Wisco as safer choices. Tufts is on the list for other reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:his school is trying to steer him elsewhere and is saying scores not high enough

This is what you're paying for, OP. Why are you asking a bunch of randos on an anonymous message board? You already have your answer. Take their advice and apply elsewhere.

op: I think like many private schools, ours tries to push the kids toward the "easiest" path for everyone. They prefer for non-legacy/recruited athletes to go ED to somewhere that is a high target. We saw it happen a lot this year so are trying to see how much weight we should give their advice.

This is great advice.