Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:37
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them
I'm happy to include upper class in my statement, as it certainly applies.
Most of what you listed are exclusionary in nature. Why is it surprising that generations raised to be inclusive aren't joining groups that define themselves by exclusion? Even on your list, the clubs that cater to the wealthy (hunting clubs and golf) are still doing great
Exclusionary how? Most groups define themselves by certain common characteristics or interests. Most people have not traditionally found bowling leagues to be snobby and exclusionary.
You can't just join a union hall or go to your local VFW. DAR requires a genealogy.
I wonder if there used to be other groups that you could have joined, or could still join, even if you're not a military veteran or represented by a collective bargaining agreement. You know what's traditionally been a big source of various community groups? Religious institutions. Imagine that.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:35
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.
Yacht clubs!
You can't make this stuff up.
Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.
My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.
why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.
Sure, you can buy a boat, find a public launch and sail it around if you live near the water. I don't think that's the social connection PP is talking about. Yacht clubs in Connecticut aren't for regular people anymore
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:35
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them
The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.
Precisely this.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:34
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Sports has always been a part of working- and middle-class community life... and it's thriving.
As a parent of athletic and non-athletic kids, I can attest to how much better off my athletes are than my non-athlete due to their experiences in sports, which included both good and bad. As my kids are about to age out of K-12 I have the benefit of hindsight and advise any parent of younger kids to be sure that their children have social connections and activities outside of school. Don't rely on schools for those things.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:34
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them
I'm happy to include upper class in my statement, as it certainly applies.
Most of what you listed are exclusionary in nature. Why is it surprising that generations raised to be inclusive aren't joining groups that define themselves by exclusion? Even on your list, the clubs that cater to the wealthy (hunting clubs and golf) are still doing great
Exclusionary how? Most groups define themselves by certain common characteristics or interests. Most people have not traditionally found bowling leagues to be snobby and exclusionary.
You can't just join a union hall or go to your local VFW. DAR requires a genealogy.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:33
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them
The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.
+1. I guess it's easier to snark about yacht clubs than it is actually to read and think about the comment, but it was actually normal for people from middle and working class backgrounds to be active in their churches or be in a bowling league or something like that. We have fewer of those bonds than we used to.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:32
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.
Yacht clubs!
You can't make this stuff up.
Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.
My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.
why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:31
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Sports has always been a part of working- and middle-class community life... and it's thriving.
Kids' sports, yes. Parents can drive and watch from their camp chairs, and drive some more, until the kids get overuse injuries or burn out.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:31
Subject: Re:Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:This seems an odd statistic. Even my religious and regular church attending in-laws would not say that their church is the most important thing to them. Their family is more important to them than their church.
Actually, the linked report is much more interesting and revealing than the one in the OP.
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1176206568/less-important-religion-in-lives-of-americans-shrinking-report
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:30
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them
I'm happy to include upper class in my statement, as it certainly applies.
Most of what you listed are exclusionary in nature. Why is it surprising that generations raised to be inclusive aren't joining groups that define themselves by exclusion? Even on your list, the clubs that cater to the wealthy (hunting clubs and golf) are still doing great
Exclusionary how? Most groups define themselves by certain common characteristics or interests. Most people have not traditionally found bowling leagues to be snobby and exclusionary.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:30
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"
My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...
There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.
Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.
DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.
Sports has always been a part of working- and middle-class community life... and it's thriving.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:29
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.
Yacht clubs!
You can't make this stuff up.
I'm from a rust belt city in the midwest, and yes, many middle class families are in the yacht clubs. There are a lot in the great lakes region. Many participants don't own boats, but like to race on them, and this is a way for them to do that. It is a huge social group too, but also greying fast.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:28
Subject: Re:Church attendance continues to plummet
This seems an odd statistic. Even my religious and regular church attending in-laws would not say that their church is the most important thing to them. Their family is more important to them than their church.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:27
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.
Yacht clubs!
You can't make this stuff up.
Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 09:27
Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.
Yacht clubs!
You can't make this stuff up.
Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.
My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.