Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 19:49     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:If you are getting a look at the exact test your kid will be taking, then yes, this is cheating.


Or even questions that are very, very similar to the questions on the test.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 19:47     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.


No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.



In the 70s it was considered an aptitude test, not a test of knowledge. Blatant outright brag here, I was a finalist back then, with no prepping and before the famous recentering.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 19:37     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Everyone preps. I wish I had known that when my older child was taking these tests. I was completely clueless about AAP and the difference between AAP and General Ed. I thought it was a truly gifted program and if my child was gifted, she'd be chosen. Little did I know it's just a smart kid+prepped kid class.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 19:07     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
If you are getting a look at the exact test your kid will be taking, then yes, this is cheating.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 18:44     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I didn't prep my DC and while they did well they didn't get into AAP, perhaps because enough families are prepping that it's raising the bar for local schools and making the cut off higher. There's definitely a risk in doing things the way you're supposed to. At the same time, I didn't want to force AAP if it's not an appropriate fit.


Another poster who doesn't get the first thing about Cogat.


Can you explain?
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 18:42     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The CogAT is normed using a group of kids who have never been prepped for or even familiarized with the questions. Prepping your child may not be cheating per se, but it will lead to an inflated score relative to the kids taking it sight unseen.

The CogAT ceiling is very low, and even getting one extra problem correct can swing the score by a few points. The conventional wisdom is that prepping could increase your child's score at most around 10-15 points. For AAP admissions, this could be the difference between acceptance and rejection.

I guess technically, prepping is defeating the purpose of the test. But, parents who want their kids in AAP are foolish if they don't prep.



Source for your data?



This is for the WIAT (adult version of the WISC) rather than CogAT. The linked study shows that merely retaking - not hardcore prepping for - the WIAT 3 to 6 months after taking the original led to increases around 4-9 points in many sections. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22353021/

GMU, in their CogAT administration FAQ, states that the CogAT cannot be administered more often than once every 6 months, and that a more accurate assessment will occur for people who do not formally prepare their children for the test. https://cap.gmu.edu/group-testing/faq


Both scenarios that you describe refer to retaking the same test. It’s expected that you’ll do better the second time around. It’s the same test, and your brain has subconsciously figured some things out.

When you prep with outside materials, you’re not taking the actual test, or learning the actual test questions.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 18:34     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:If it truly measured innate ability, then prepping wouldn't make any difference. If it doesn't measure innate ability, then perhaps it shouldn't be used as a litmus (or the only litmus) for which children are gifted.


No test purely measures innate ability, and all tests are vulnerable to prepping. The WISC, which ought to be less vulnerable to prepping than the CogAT, since it's more comprehensive and not strictly multiple choice, is still vulnerable to prepping. FCPS and other school districts use the CogAT and NNAT because they're much cheaper than individual IQ tests. They've moved away from over-reliance on the score and instead base admissions more on GBRS. This is likely due to widespread prepping for the CogAT and NNAT.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 18:26     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
If it truly measured innate ability, then prepping wouldn't make any difference. If it doesn't measure innate ability, then perhaps it shouldn't be used as a litmus (or the only litmus) for which children are gifted.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 18:15     Subject: Re:prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
The schools will introduce kids to the test format and questions a few days before the exam. They spend 30 minutes or so on this.

Prepping by parents is more buying a workbook and doing the 2-4 practice exams in the book and walking through how to approach the questions to improve scores.

Prepping is also sending your child to a program that teaches your kid how to take the CoGAT or NNAT. There are prep classes for these exams the same way there are prep classes for the SAT.

The difference is that these are meant to by proxy IQ exams and are used to measure IQ and ability. They are not supposed to be prepped for.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 17:50     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The CogAT is normed using a group of kids who have never been prepped for or even familiarized with the questions. Prepping your child may not be cheating per se, but it will lead to an inflated score relative to the kids taking it sight unseen.

The CogAT ceiling is very low, and even getting one extra problem correct can swing the score by a few points. The conventional wisdom is that prepping could increase your child's score at most around 10-15 points. For AAP admissions, this could be the difference between acceptance and rejection.

I guess technically, prepping is defeating the purpose of the test. But, parents who want their kids in AAP are foolish if they don't prep.



Source for your data?



This is for the WIAT (adult version of the WISC) rather than CogAT. The linked study shows that merely retaking - not hardcore prepping for - the WIAT 3 to 6 months after taking the original led to increases around 4-9 points in many sections. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22353021/

GMU, in their CogAT administration FAQ, states that the CogAT cannot be administered more often than once every 6 months, and that a more accurate assessment will occur for people who do not formally prepare their children for the test. https://cap.gmu.edu/group-testing/faq
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 17:29     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:The CogAT is normed using a group of kids who have never been prepped for or even familiarized with the questions. Prepping your child may not be cheating per se, but it will lead to an inflated score relative to the kids taking it sight unseen.

The CogAT ceiling is very low, and even getting one extra problem correct can swing the score by a few points. The conventional wisdom is that prepping could increase your child's score at most around 10-15 points. For AAP admissions, this could be the difference between acceptance and rejection.

I guess technically, prepping is defeating the purpose of the test. But, parents who want their kids in AAP are foolish if they don't prep.



Source for your data?

Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 17:29     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:It's cheating. And FCPS has figured out the solution: they are unimpressed by high test scores and may even penalize students. Now the GBRS, which is somewhat subjective, is much more heavily weighted.

There's no "punishment" for cheating. They're just little kids. But there are solutions. And FCPS has found one.

GBRS is really just the popularity contest with the teacher…. The WISC debunks the GBRS every time. So by not accepting the high scores, ask for more high scores? Then what? Not accepting any of the high scores then they are just asking for lawsuits.
Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 17:28     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.


No one I know has ever been told this. This is a knowledge test. OF COURSE you should prep.

Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 17:25     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
The CogAT is normed using a group of kids who have never been prepped for or even familiarized with the questions. Prepping your child may not be cheating per se, but it will lead to an inflated score relative to the kids taking it sight unseen.

The CogAT ceiling is very low, and even getting one extra problem correct can swing the score by a few points. The conventional wisdom is that prepping could increase your child's score at most around 10-15 points. For AAP admissions, this could be the difference between acceptance and rejection.

I guess technically, prepping is defeating the purpose of the test. But, parents who want their kids in AAP are foolish if they don't prep.

Anonymous
Post 05/11/2023 17:23     Subject: prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?
In the 1970s and 80s, kids were told that they couldn't/shouldn't study for the SAT. That it was a measure of their innate ability.

Look how far we've come.