Anonymous wrote:Someone moved into my non-HOA Alexandria (Fairfax section) neighborhood and went this route. They ripped up all the grass and bushes in the front yard and planted dozens of little native bushes. Then they covered the entire yard with bark. When the tree in the front fell over, they just left the 4-ft high stump and cut up the rest into rounds and put them in the yard, in some sort of walk-way kind of situation? It looks absolutely bizarre. Now they've got lots of weeds or grasses growing up between the bark. No one else in the neighborhood has a front yard like this so....yeah. Glad I don't live next door to them.

Well so, exactly. Imagine if this PP could complain to or control an HOA.

Someone moved into my non-HOA Alexandria (Fairfax section) neighborhood and went this route. They ripped up all the grass and bushes in the front yard and planted dozens of little native bushes. Then they covered the entire yard with bark. When the tree in the front fell over, they just left the 4-ft high stump and cut up the rest into rounds and put them in the yard, in some sort of walk-way kind of situation? It looks absolutely bizarre. Now they've got lots of weeds or grasses growing up between the bark. No one else in the neighborhood has a front yard like this so....yeah. Glad I don't live next door to them.

[i]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I love gardens of all kinds, including tidy lawns and wild cottage gardens.

You’re not going to win this with an HOA. It’s not the native vs non native, but people who want to live in an HOA neighborhood aren’t going to tolerate plants in any state of decline or dormancy, which will make it hard to have an effective native perennial garden. And they’re going to be mad if your mowed lawn isn’t monoculture. Like, MAD. People who are into monoculture lawns get big time mad. Why would you want to be in a quasi-governmental situation with those people where you have to mutually negotiate rules for yards? It’s a nightmare. It’s worth finding a house without an HOA.

My mother, who is lovely and likes flowers, asked me what was wrong with my hellebores that made the leaves grow early. She literally didn’t know they have last seasons’ leaves when they bloom. She thought the flowers grew right out of the ground, because that is the only way she’s ever seen them. It’s like not knowing corgies have long tails.

Burke Centre PP. This doesn't really sound familiar to me for the neighborhoods around Burke, West Springfield, Annandale, (old) Fairfax (e.g. by GMU). I've lived and visited in some places that were like that and they were almost always entire neighborhoods of newer builds in outer-ring suburban areas, or a neighborhood attached to a golf course. In this part of NOVA, I feel like most people buy houses IN SPITE of a HOA, not because of it. I mean, there are definitely some retirees around Burke who love their lawns and spend an enormous amount of time and/or money maintaining them, but if the HOA doesn't care about lawns filled with clover and dandelions, they really can't do much about it.

Burke Centre Conservancy actually facilitates ordering and distributing free native shrubs and trees through the Fairfax ReLeaf non-profit every year, and the Conservancy is a big reason why Burke hasn't been built up the way other areas around here have. For a really long time they required us to get permission to cut down a tree because they're trying to maintain the tree canopy. They really don't care about having everyone's lawn look like a TruGreen commercial. But this is why OP's doing the research because every HOA is different.

It’s a long way from planting trees and shrubs to letting the perennial stalks stay up all winter to shelter bugs, or leaving the leaves to improve the soil and shelter bugs. As OP gets more into the hows and whys for wanting native plants in the first place, there is going to be conflict between the ecological and the tidy.

Anonymous wrote:OP I love gardens of all kinds, including tidy lawns and wild cottage gardens.

You’re not going to win this with an HOA. It’s not the native vs non native, but people who want to live in an HOA neighborhood aren’t going to tolerate plants in any state of decline or dormancy, which will make it hard to have an effective native perennial garden. And they’re going to be mad if your mowed lawn isn’t monoculture. Like, MAD. People who are into monoculture lawns get big time mad. Why would you want to be in a quasi-governmental situation with those people where you have to mutually negotiate rules for yards? It’s a nightmare. It’s worth finding a house without an HOA.

My mother, who is lovely and likes flowers, asked me what was wrong with my hellebores that made the leaves grow early. She literally didn’t know they have last seasons’ leaves when they bloom. She thought the flowers grew right out of the ground, because that is the only way she’s ever seen them. It’s like not knowing corgies have long tails.

Burke Centre PP. This doesn't really sound familiar to me for the neighborhoods around Burke, West Springfield, Annandale, (old) Fairfax (e.g. by GMU). I've lived and visited in some places that were like that and they were almost always entire neighborhoods of newer builds in outer-ring suburban areas, or a neighborhood attached to a golf course. In this part of NOVA, I feel like most people buy houses IN SPITE of a HOA, not because of it. I mean, there are definitely some retirees around Burke who love their lawns and spend an enormous amount of time and/or money maintaining them, but if the HOA doesn't care about lawns filled with clover and dandelions, they really can't do much about it.

Burke Centre Conservancy actually facilitates ordering and distributing free native shrubs and trees through the Fairfax ReLeaf non-profit every year, and the Conservancy is a big reason why Burke hasn't been built up the way other areas around here have. For a really long time they required us to get permission to cut down a tree because they're trying to maintain the tree canopy. They really don't care about having everyone's lawn look like a TruGreen commercial. But this is why OP's doing the research because every HOA is different.

The inherent problem with all HOAs is that 99% of people don’t really care so you are at the mercy of the small number that care enough to run the HOA and whatever their pet peeve is. It might be lawns or sheds or basketball hoops or whatever. If you’re lucky, it’s something reasonable like people not securing their trash bins. I was once at an HOA meeting with two people gojng at it over sheds versus basketball hoops with each thinking their thing was great and the other’s was awful. It was so stupid.

This is the PP, I want to make one more case here.

It is relatively easy to outsource the maintenance of a lawn and some flower beds with shrubs, maybe some hostas, and a bunch of bare mulch.

It is basically impossible to outsource care and maintenance of a native perennial garden unless it’s specifically designed for it, probably by being mostly shrubs and grasses.

So that’s fine because you plan to do it yourself, but the year you break your leg is the HOA going to be on your case about how the Monarda has mildew in August even though that’s perfectly normal and can you please cut it back, or that the goldenrod has flopped because you didn’t get a chance to stake it? When people say “as long as it’s tidy and maintained” they are seeing something specific in their mind, and it’s usually mulch and edging.

OP I love gardens of all kinds, including tidy lawns and wild cottage gardens.

You’re not going to win this with an HOA. It’s not the native vs non native, but people who want to live in an HOA neighborhood aren’t going to tolerate plants in any state of decline or dormancy, which will make it hard to have an effective native perennial garden. And they’re going to be mad if your mowed lawn isn’t monoculture. Like, MAD. People who are into monoculture lawns get big time mad. Why would you want to be in a quasi-governmental situation with those people where you have to mutually negotiate rules for yards? It’s a nightmare. It’s worth finding a house without an HOA.

My mother, who is lovely and likes flowers, asked me what was wrong with my hellebores that made the leaves grow early. She literally didn’t know they have last seasons’ leaves when they bloom. She thought the flowers grew right out of the ground, because that is the only way she’s ever seen them. It’s like not knowing corgies have long tails.

I live in West Springfield and I think most neighborhoods here are very accepting of native gardening as long as it looks neat and is maintained. We have an HOA and our HOA has put in several pollinator gardens. I think the only thing people would complain about is if you keep the grass but refuse to mow it. I know that's a thing (no-mow May), but that would probably get the HOA on your case. Switching to clover with a low profile I think would be fine in my neighborhood, even though you won't see it currently. You could be the trend setter . . .
And if you move to my neighborhood I'd welcome advice on slowly switching to natives!

Anonymous wrote:Gardens are a lot of work. I’ve seen people get in over their head by starting too big, too fast. They are unable to maintain, use the wrong placement and it becomes overgrown and unmanageable.

You need to start small, see how things develop and slowly expand. This will take YEARS.

There’s an unsightly front lawn garden in my neighborhood because the home owner thought it was enough to just throw natives on the front lawn. No thought was given to the full size of the plant at maturity and it was not well thought out. Now a new homeowner is struggling with it and has done nothing to correct the placement issue.

A front lawn garden can be beautiful. Check out Lucinda Hutson’s Texas garden. Planning and continued maintenance is key. Don’t be fooled into thinking a native garden will be set it and forget it.

OP here. I ripped out grass and converted my (rowhouse) front yard to perennials about 5 years ago. I'm not completely new to this or the work it takes, though not by any means super experienced. I have discovered I love gardening, find it incredibly therapeutic, and have been learning more as I go. I don't always know what I'm doing, but I've learned and researched enough to know which perennials grow big vs small and seem to work well together, what I need to do to care for them seasonally, etc. Neighbors are frequently commenting on our front yard flowers when they pass by.

I don't expect to do convert everything all at once, but I do want a fence border of native flowers and hedges around my back yard. In the front, I'll probably lean toward a grass-clover mix as I read about it; at a minimum, I will not use pesticides to maintain a golf course yard and will let clover reign free (mowing of course).

However, where I can sensibly reduce lawn with garden, I will, especially in the backyard (not all, I have kids, we want some playspace for them).

It literally brings me so much joy to see a bee or a butterfly enjoying flowers in my yard. I guess I'm kinda crazy, but it is what it is.

Gardens are a lot of work. I’ve seen people get in over their head by starting too big, too fast. They are unable to maintain, use the wrong placement and it becomes overgrown and unmanageable.

You need to start small, see how things develop and slowly expand. This will take YEARS.

There’s an unsightly front lawn garden in my neighborhood because the home owner thought it was enough to just throw natives on the front lawn. No thought was given to the full size of the plant at maturity and it was not well thought out. Now a new homeowner is struggling with it and has done nothing to correct the placement issue.

A front lawn garden can be beautiful. Check out Lucinda Hutson’s Texas garden. Planning and continued maintenance is key. Don’t be fooled into thinking a native garden will be set it and forget it.

Anonymous wrote:I’m in MD but you really need to look at the HOA rules. My old HOA had a rule that something like 90% of front lawn had to be covered by grass. And the rules were basically impossible to amend (you needed majority v vote of all homeowners and only a very small percentage ever went to meetings). Most HOAs won’t enforce all the rules because many rules are dumb. But all it takes is one zealous neighbor to take over the HOA and then make your life miserable with fees and such. On the upside most HOAs don’t have enough money to pay lawyers to enforce their rules but I had a family member who was really harassed—the HOA board was aggressive about fees for violations and then used that money to pay lawyers to sue people for violations and get more money, etc etc. Some people really don’t have anything better to do and no one wants to oppose them and get into their crosshairs. The people that attend the HOA meetings and run for the board are often the worst busybodies in the neighborhood. I was so glad to find a house that didn’t have an HOA when I moved.

I would actually love to see state or county legislation that bans HOA rules that are bad for the environment (like lawn mandates). I come from a city out west where county law limits environmentally detrimental planting. That’s probably not going to happen here but I wish the law would at least get rid of these silly outdated HOA mandates that are impossible to amend contractually.

+1 to this

OP here - thanks all.

Preference is not HOA, but the real estate market out there appears to be VERY competitive. We're likely going to have to be happy with what we can get that reasonably meets our needs, be it HOA or not.

Anonymous wrote:When you plant clover lawn what happens in the winter?

My backyard is about 80% clover in spite of my relentless weed and feed schedule. It looks like clover in the winter. It never dies out to just dirt.

I’m in MD but you really need to look at the HOA rules. My old HOA had a rule that something like 90% of front lawn had to be covered by grass. And the rules were basically impossible to amend (you needed majority v vote of all homeowners and only a very small percentage ever went to meetings). Most HOAs won’t enforce all the rules because many rules are dumb. But all it takes is one zealous neighbor to take over the HOA and then make your life miserable with fees and such. On the upside most HOAs don’t have enough money to pay lawyers to enforce their rules but I had a family member who was really harassed—the HOA board was aggressive about fees for violations and then used that money to pay lawyers to sue people for violations and get more money, etc etc. Some people really don’t have anything better to do and no one wants to oppose them and get into their crosshairs. The people that attend the HOA meetings and run for the board are often the worst busybodies in the neighborhood. I was so glad to find a house that didn’t have an HOA when I moved.

I would actually love to see state or county legislation that bans HOA rules that are bad for the environment (like lawn mandates). I come from a city out west where county law limits environmentally detrimental planting. That’s probably not going to happen here but I wish the law would at least get rid of these silly outdated HOA mandates that are impossible to amend contractually.

FWIW, I lived in an HOA neighborhood (townhouse) that didn't care what happened in your yard so long as it was cared for. Some people had veggie gardens in front. You really can't answer this question without visiting the neighborhood.