It would be helpful to know what age were talking about and what mean things this kid does to her teammates. I have the perspective of a now college girl swimmer and I was a rep for years. I now appreciate that the girl at 8 who was miserable to be around lashing out when she swam poorly is almost certainly on the autism spectrum. My own DD who was slow but got a bit big for her britches in late MS has grown into a great leader and teammate by HS and college. But man. . . There were many feuds with club teammates and summer teammates along the way. Kids are learning to manage their emotions and competition appropriately. Some will struggle. Teammates can set boundaries “that’s not nice” and walk away. It’s a good skill to have.

This sounds like you have a fast cocky swimmer in your kids age group and she’s a mean girl. If that’s the case, generally yes, she’ll swim unless she does something extreme. Unfortunately feuding with friends and parents is part of tween/teen behavior. Practice attendance is not a factor at our pool because club swimmers practice with their clubs. I think you likely need to use this behavior as a teaching moment for your kid and change pools if it’s making you miserable. Neither you or the coach can micromanage the social relationships between these girls. Sure, set expectations for good behavior and correct bad behavior but you sound like you want more than that and it’s not a reasonable expectation.

1)How old is this swimmer? Not practicing will catch up to them.
2) The swimmer yells at their parent, Why is this a coach issue?

Anonymous wrote:Here's Mclean's ad https://www.mynvsl.com/coach/2396 it doesn't say bonus for winning, but season end bonus. Which surely depends on winning.

OP- why don't your friends speak out? If they're the ones that are upset enough not to swim they should talk to the coach- otherwise it may be making a mountain out of a molehill for you. In these upper div. the kids that don't swim club won't be the fastest for long. I can't imagine anyone being the fastest except 8U if they don't swim club in the top 2 divisions

I don't get the big bonuses for summer swim when its the year round club kids winning usually and the summer coaches don't really do much for those kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team reps and other posters who say this is “unacceptable” and “not tolerated” - have you ever not allowed a kid to swim? I notice there are no anecdotes of kids not being allowed to swim. I’m sure there have been cases in which coaches have had to talk to parents of difficult kids, but actually telling a kid they can’t swim and telling the family to take a hike- has anyone done it?

The handbook might say one thing, but it’s quite another to actually pull a kid out of a rec activity.

We did but not how you describe. A swimmer (15-18) pulled some stunts at a meet and then left. One of the top swimmers. The next meet the swimmer was not allowed to swim the following A meet and it was explained to all parties that seed time, sportsmanship and being a good teammate were all factors for A meet selection.

Sounds fair. It’s different with a 15-18 year old, though. They should be mature enough to not be a PITA. I’m guessing OP is talking about a younger swimmer, 10u or even 8u.

Here's Mclean's ad https://www.mynvsl.com/coach/2396 it doesn't say bonus for winning, but season end bonus. Which surely depends on winning.

OP- why don't your friends speak out? If they're the ones that are upset enough not to swim they should talk to the coach- otherwise it may be making a mountain out of a molehill for you. In these upper div. the kids that don't swim club won't be the fastest for long. I can't imagine anyone being the fastest except 8U if they don't swim club in the top 2 divisions

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen a top athlete benched for any significant length of time, in any sport, due to
behavior. Ridiculous as that is…

Yep. Coaches rarely do the right thing in these cases. If you’re fast you get away with a lot more in environments where the top priority is winning. That’s the price you pay swimming in the top division of the crazy NVSL.

In the top teams the coaches generally get bonuses for wins so they aren't going to be motivated to tell the child they cannot swim.

I do wonder if our coach gets a bonus or just cares a lot about winning. Is a bonus standard for NVSL coaches?

I am not the type to make waves, but I appreciate the feedback about potentially contacting the reps. I fear it will look like sour grapes or that I want the child benched so my kid or my friends’ kids can swim instead. What I actually want is for the age group as a whole to be able to have fun and support each other.

-OP

Coaches are paid by the pool and some pools offer bonuses for winning. It has nothing to do with NVSL and it is not standard.

We swim at a Division 1 pool and never have I heard of coaches getting a bonus for winning

UM, div 1 definitely gives bonuses. McLeans ad for head coach said it out in the open -and pay was large, so I assume the other d1 is the same

Anonymous wrote:Team reps and other posters who say this is “unacceptable” and “not tolerated” - have you ever not allowed a kid to swim? I notice there are no anecdotes of kids not being allowed to swim. I’m sure there have been cases in which coaches have had to talk to parents of difficult kids, but actually telling a kid they can’t swim and telling the family to take a hike- has anyone done it?

The handbook might say one thing, but it’s quite another to actually pull a kid out of a rec activity.

We did but not how you describe. A swimmer (15-18) pulled some stunts at a meet and then left. One of the top swimmers. The next meet the swimmer was not allowed to swim the following A meet and it was explained to all parties that seed time, sportsmanship and being a good teammate were all factors for A meet selection.

Team reps and other posters who say this is “unacceptable” and “not tolerated” - have you ever not allowed a kid to swim? I notice there are no anecdotes of kids not being allowed to swim. I’m sure there have been cases in which coaches have had to talk to parents of difficult kids, but actually telling a kid they can’t swim and telling the family to take a hike- has anyone done it?

The handbook might say one thing, but it’s quite another to actually pull a kid out of a rec activity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen a top athlete benched for any significant length of time, in any sport, due to
behavior. Ridiculous as that is…

Yep. Coaches rarely do the right thing in these cases. If you’re fast you get away with a lot more in environments where the top priority is winning. That’s the price you pay swimming in the top division of the crazy NVSL.

In the top teams the coaches generally get bonuses for wins so they aren't going to be motivated to tell the child they cannot swim.

I do wonder if our coach gets a bonus or just cares a lot about winning. Is a bonus standard for NVSL coaches?

I am not the type to make waves, but I appreciate the feedback about potentially contacting the reps. I fear it will look like sour grapes or that I want the child benched so my kid or my friends’ kids can swim instead. What I actually want is for the age group as a whole to be able to have fun and support each other.

-OP

Coaches are paid by the pool and some pools offer bonuses for winning. It has nothing to do with NVSL and it is not standard.

We swim at a Division 1 pool and never have I heard of coaches getting a bonus for winning

I’ve seen DDs coach throw a kid out of an A meet for unsportsmanlike behavior. I’m not sure if she ever went so far as to replace him in the lineup but apparently she at least draws a line somewhere.

Is this child 10 and under? If so, all of the dramatic parents need to chill out. Kids develop and mature at different paces. Maybe she has a disability you don’t know about.

I assume these are younger kids? My guess is these kids and parents who are not signing up are not that into swim and using this as a partial excuse.

I don't doubt the "toxic" swimmer has a bad attitude, but, not listening is par for the course with summer swim, nobody cares if a swimmer practice or not, bad attitude is also prevalent because there are always some kids being forced to do it by their parents, so, that leaves bullying other team mates. If your child is impacted I would take it to the coach, the rep, and the parents if my child was targeted.

Anonymous wrote:Our coach appears unwilling to deviate from this practice, even if it means losing some families or guaranteeing a less fun summer for others.

Our upper-division MCSL coach would bench a swimmer who did as you describe, depending on her behavior each week. I don't know how much NVSL's culture differs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen a top athlete benched for any significant length of time, in any sport, due to
behavior. Ridiculous as that is…

Yep. Coaches rarely do the right thing in these cases. If you’re fast you get away with a lot more in environments where the top priority is winning. That’s the price you pay swimming in the top division of the crazy NVSL.

In the top teams the coaches generally get bonuses for wins so they aren't going to be motivated to tell the child they cannot swim.

I do wonder if our coach gets a bonus or just cares a lot about winning. Is a bonus standard for NVSL coaches?

I am not the type to make waves, but I appreciate the feedback about potentially contacting the reps. I fear it will look like sour grapes or that I want the child benched so my kid or my friends’ kids can swim instead. What I actually want is for the age group as a whole to be able to have fun and support each other.

-OP

Coaches are paid by the pool and some pools offer bonuses for winning. It has nothing to do with NVSL and it is not standard.