Anonymous
05/04/2023 09:59
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
We aren’t paying any less and now additionally paying for meets.
Well that seems unfair. Our club lowered tuition now that meet fees aren't included.
Our club made a big deal about lowering tuition now that meet fees aren't included, but they only lowered the fees by about $150 per year (and I only looked it up for the most expensive group). It seems like smoke and mirrors because paying separately is a HUGE cost increase on families. This is already a pricey club.
Like everything, it's complicated. Prior to covid, most lsc's and swim clubs tried to keep entry fees and event fees low and many of them hadn't raised them in years. Our lsc raised splash fees post covid for the first time in 15 years. The way that most LSC's work is that they keep a portion of the splash fees and the host keeps the rest. When covid hit, LSC's lost out on splash fees, their investments tanked, and they probably dipped into savings to help clubs stay afloat. Then they had to run meets without spectator fees and pay for live streaming for a while. Running championship meets without spectator fees and paying for live streaming meant that, rather than making a profit, some LSC's actually lost money. Raising splash fees was the logical step.
On the other end, clubs were paying coaches through covid with reduced meet revenue and fewer swimmers. Clubs that billed monthly or quarterly really lost out.
If you compare meet fees from 2018/19 to today, you can see that they went up a ton. Part of it is from increased LSC splash fees and part is due to clubs trying to recoup their losses from 2020/21. Entry fees for the 2018 pvs sc champs went from 0/$8 for entry/event to $10/$12 in 2022. So a kid who swam 7 events paid $56 in 2018 and $94 in 2022. At the 2018 FISH invite, a kid swimming 7 events paid $52. In 2023, the kid will pay $86. This is why meet fees are often separate now. I actually think the fees were too low before. It's a huge undertaking to run a swim meet- way more complex than throwing together a soccer game with a ref and two lines persons. Not to mention the cost of renting a pool vs reserving a field. Also, I think the high cost of other youth sports is eroding the will the keep entry and event fees very affordable in swim.
Actually pvs lc champs had the same fees for over 10 years. And same for the fish invitational. With inflation, those fees should have gone up 25-30%, so they are actually right where they should be, it’s just that they went up in a big jump instead of every year. Covid was a big wake-up call to a lot swim clubs that they hadn’t increased their meet fees in too long.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 07:57
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
We aren’t paying any less and now additionally paying for meets.
Well that seems unfair. Our club lowered tuition now that meet fees aren't included.
Our club made a big deal about lowering tuition now that meet fees aren't included, but they only lowered the fees by about $150 per year (and I only looked it up for the most expensive group). It seems like smoke and mirrors because paying separately is a HUGE cost increase on families. This is already a pricey club.
Like everything, it's complicated. Prior to covid, most lsc's and swim clubs tried to keep entry fees and event fees low and many of them hadn't raised them in years. Our lsc raised splash fees post covid for the first time in 15 years. The way that most LSC's work is that they keep a portion of the splash fees and the host keeps the rest. When covid hit, LSC's lost out on splash fees, their investments tanked, and they probably dipped into savings to help clubs stay afloat. Then they had to run meets without spectator fees and pay for live streaming for a while. Running championship meets without spectator fees and paying for live streaming meant that, rather than making a profit, some LSC's actually lost money. Raising splash fees was the logical step.
On the other end, clubs were paying coaches through covid with reduced meet revenue and fewer swimmers. Clubs that billed monthly or quarterly really lost out.
If you compare meet fees from 2018/19 to today, you can see that they went up a ton. Part of it is from increased LSC splash fees and part is due to clubs trying to recoup their losses from 2020/21. Entry fees for the 2018 pvs sc champs went from 0/$8 for entry/event to $10/$12 in 2022. So a kid who swam 7 events paid $56 in 2018 and $94 in 2022. At the 2018 FISH invite, a kid swimming 7 events paid $52. In 2023, the kid will pay $86. This is why meet fees are often separate now. I actually think the fees were too low before. It's a huge undertaking to run a swim meet- way more complex than throwing together a soccer game with a ref and two lines persons. Not to mention the cost of renting a pool vs reserving a field. Also, I think the high cost of other youth sports is eroding the will the keep entry and event fees very affordable in swim.
A lot of swim clubs applied for and got government funds to cover their costs during Covid.
It is a huge undertaking to run a meet, but your costs are actually pretty low with most labor being volunteers (who also paid $ for their kid to swim).
They have stopped live-streaming meets, so that cost is gone.
There is no reason to pay so much to swim at a meet. These clubs need to reduce fees or remove them entirely for parents who volunteer.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 00:33
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
We aren’t paying any less and now additionally paying for meets.
Well that seems unfair. Our club lowered tuition now that meet fees aren't included.
Our club made a big deal about lowering tuition now that meet fees aren't included, but they only lowered the fees by about $150 per year (and I only looked it up for the most expensive group). It seems like smoke and mirrors because paying separately is a HUGE cost increase on families. This is already a pricey club.
Like everything, it's complicated. Prior to covid, most lsc's and swim clubs tried to keep entry fees and event fees low and many of them hadn't raised them in years. Our lsc raised splash fees post covid for the first time in 15 years. The way that most LSC's work is that they keep a portion of the splash fees and the host keeps the rest. When covid hit, LSC's lost out on splash fees, their investments tanked, and they probably dipped into savings to help clubs stay afloat. Then they had to run meets without spectator fees and pay for live streaming for a while. Running championship meets without spectator fees and paying for live streaming meant that, rather than making a profit, some LSC's actually lost money. Raising splash fees was the logical step.
On the other end, clubs were paying coaches through covid with reduced meet revenue and fewer swimmers. Clubs that billed monthly or quarterly really lost out.
If you compare meet fees from 2018/19 to today, you can see that they went up a ton. Part of it is from increased LSC splash fees and part is due to clubs trying to recoup their losses from 2020/21. Entry fees for the 2018 pvs sc champs went from 0/$8 for entry/event to $10/$12 in 2022. So a kid who swam 7 events paid $56 in 2018 and $94 in 2022. At the 2018 FISH invite, a kid swimming 7 events paid $52. In 2023, the kid will pay $86. This is why meet fees are often separate now. I actually think the fees were too low before. It's a huge undertaking to run a swim meet- way more complex than throwing together a soccer game with a ref and two lines persons. Not to mention the cost of renting a pool vs reserving a field. Also, I think the high cost of other youth sports is eroding the will the keep entry and event fees very affordable in swim.
Anonymous
05/03/2023 21:46
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
We aren’t paying any less and now additionally paying for meets.
Well that seems unfair. Our club lowered tuition now that meet fees aren't included.
Since we rarely do meets, I'd rather a lower tuition/fee and pay separately.
Anonymous
05/03/2023 14:13
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
We aren’t paying any less and now additionally paying for meets.
Well that seems unfair. Our club lowered tuition now that meet fees aren't included.
Our club made a big deal about lowering tuition now that meet fees aren't included, but they only lowered the fees by about $150 per year (and I only looked it up for the most expensive group). It seems like smoke and mirrors because paying separately is a HUGE cost increase on families. This is already a pricey club.
Anonymous
05/03/2023 13:51
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
We aren’t paying any less and now additionally paying for meets.
Well that seems unfair. Our club lowered tuition now that meet fees aren't included.
Anonymous
05/03/2023 13:45
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
We aren’t paying any less and now additionally paying for meets.
Anonymous
05/03/2023 13:44
Subject: Re:Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow am I grateful for where I live! I just checked and meet fees for October - March were $370 total for 1 kid, including coach fees and going to regionals.
That is cheap- I spent over $1500 one year for one swimmer…. They add up.
The craziest thing is that despite these fees, the host doesn’t make much money off the meet. At least not compared to money making behemoths like soccer, volleyball, and lacrosse tournaments. USA swimming officials will have their kids’ entry fees waived, lodging if they need it, and then they get some meals and snacks, but no pay. Parent volunteers aren’t paid either. I’ve been to meets where they charge for heat sheets and spectator admission, but even so, those meets don’t bring in the kind of revenue a big volleyball tournament does.
PP- I agree- Swim clubs and meets are not a very profitable youth sport. It is probably very hard for the private (coach own) teams to make decent money. The pool rentals for practice, paying for coaches and other expenses are high. I also never understood why they charge the same amount per entry fee, no matter the distance- The 50 free and the mile at a meet has the same splash fee. ($10 to $15) per event
So the mile should have a higher splash fee because the kids are in the pool longer? What happens when shorter events have prelims and finals and longer ones have timed finals? I don’t think anyone would ever charge more for the long events - you don’t want to discourage the 400 IM and 1500/1650 entries, they are feared enough!
Anonymous
05/03/2023 13:29
Subject: Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
As a parent whose child only swims in club meets occasionally, I appreciate this model. Previously we were paying more per month in tuition and not participating in meets. This makes it fair for those whose children have other weekend commitments and don't attend two 3-day meets each month.
Anonymous
05/03/2023 08:26
Subject: Re:Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow am I grateful for where I live! I just checked and meet fees for October - March were $370 total for 1 kid, including coach fees and going to regionals.
That is cheap- I spent over $1500 one year for one swimmer…. They add up.
The craziest thing is that despite these fees, the host doesn’t make much money off the meet. At least not compared to money making behemoths like soccer, volleyball, and lacrosse tournaments. USA swimming officials will have their kids’ entry fees waived, lodging if they need it, and then they get some meals and snacks, but no pay. Parent volunteers aren’t paid either. I’ve been to meets where they charge for heat sheets and spectator admission, but even so, those meets don’t bring in the kind of revenue a big volleyball tournament does.
PP- I agree- Swim clubs and meets are not a very profitable youth sport. It is probably very hard for the private (coach own) teams to make decent money. The pool rentals for practice, paying for coaches and other expenses are high. I also never understood why they charge the same amount per entry fee, no matter the distance- The 50 free and the mile at a meet has the same splash fee. ($10 to $15) per event
Anonymous
05/03/2023 00:43
Subject: Re:Paying for Swim Meet Fees separately
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow am I grateful for where I live! I just checked and meet fees for October - March were $370 total for 1 kid, including coach fees and going to regionals.
That is cheap- I spent over $1500 one year for one swimmer…. They add up.
The craziest thing is that despite these fees, the host doesn’t make much money off the meet. At least not compared to money making behemoths like soccer, volleyball, and lacrosse tournaments. USA swimming officials will have their kids’ entry fees waived, lodging if they need it, and then they get some meals and snacks, but no pay. Parent volunteers aren’t paid either. I’ve been to meets where they charge for heat sheets and spectator admission, but even so, those meets don’t bring in the kind of revenue a big volleyball tournament does.
How much money does a meet generate? Serious question. A one day meet would have three sessions of 350 kids. I estimate it is about 40k.
I estimate a host makes 50-75% of their entry fee. So for a meet of 350 kids, I would guess the host makes $25k at most. And much less in many cases. In a large part, profit depends on the facility rental fee. If they don’t have to pay a fee, they can make more. If they sell food and t shirts, sell heat sheets, and charge admission, they can make more
On the other hand, soccer tournaments usually have a break even point of 60-70 teams. So a soccer tournament with 500 teams, at an average of $800 entry fee per team, would yield a $344k profit. A 3 day volleyball tournament can net a million.
There’s a reason why hedge funds have bought youth sports complexes and youth sports teams in soccer but not in swim.