Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG, this nonsense again? Do yourself a favor and read Dale and Kruger, then ignore this.

Please stop with the Dale and Kruger nonsense.

Sure, as soon as someone gets their research debunking it published 3 times with over 3 decades of data.

It's not about debunking...it's just that Dale & Krueger can only focus on overall averages. So, yes a high-achieving kid that was accepted to Yale but chooses Penn State will do just as well as the average Yale grad.

However, do they just as well as the Yale kids that are in the top 10% of Yale (?)...do they have a history of producing extreme positive outcomes that are heavily concentrated in top school graduates (?)

If your goal after college is to just go and work at Accenture, then Penn State and Yale will have identical outcomes. If you are hoping to work for a hedge fund or a VC fund...well, I am not sure Dale & Krueger can really tell you anything with respect to things like that.

"a high-achieving kid that was accepted to Yale but chooses Penn State will do just as well as the average Yale grad."

But this isn't what Dale and Krueger conclude. Their research shows that this hypothetical student will do as well as they themselves would do at Yale, not as well as the average Yale student. What they demonstrated is that what matters is the student, not where they get their education (as long as where they choose to attend is a well-chosen safety school, like PSU vs. Yale).

How can they possibly prove that kid will do just as well as if they went to Yale...they have to compare it against something at Yale. Are you saying they compare Kid A that was accepted to Yale and chose PSU vs. Kid B that was accepted to Yale and PSU but chose Yale? Don't they compare against the Yale averages?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG, this nonsense again? Do yourself a favor and read Dale and Kruger, then ignore this.

Please stop with the Dale and Kruger nonsense.

Sure, as soon as someone gets their research debunking it published 3 times with over 3 decades of data.

It's not about debunking...it's just that Dale & Krueger can only focus on overall averages. So, yes a high-achieving kid that was accepted to Yale but chooses Penn State will do just as well as the average Yale grad.

However, do they just as well as the Yale kids that are in the top 10% of Yale (?)...do they have a history of producing extreme positive outcomes that are heavily concentrated in top school graduates (?)

If your goal after college is to just go and work at Accenture, then Penn State and Yale will have identical outcomes. If you are hoping to work for a hedge fund or a VC fund...well, I am not sure Dale & Krueger can really tell you anything with respect to things like that.

"a high-achieving kid that was accepted to Yale but chooses Penn State will do just as well as the average Yale grad."

But this isn't what Dale and Krueger conclude. Their research shows that this hypothetical student will do as well as they themselves would do at Yale, not as well as the average Yale student. What they demonstrated is that what matters is the student, not where they get their education (as long as where they choose to attend is a well-chosen safety school, like PSU vs. Yale).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG, this nonsense again? Do yourself a favor and read Dale and Kruger, then ignore this.

Please stop with the Dale and Kruger nonsense.

Sure, as soon as someone gets their research debunking it published 3 times with over 3 decades of data.

It's not about debunking...it's just that Dale & Krueger can only focus on overall averages. So, yes a high-achieving kid that was accepted to Yale but chooses Penn State will do just as well as the average Yale grad.

However, do they just as well as the Yale kids that are in the top 10% of Yale (?)...do they have a history of producing extreme positive outcomes that are heavily concentrated in top school graduates (?)

If your goal after college is to just go and work at Accenture, then Penn State and Yale will have identical outcomes. If you are hoping to work for a hedge fund or a VC fund...well, I am not sure Dale & Krueger can really tell you anything with respect to things like that.

The data is not perfect, but at least it is impartial coming from the government database. There are many factors to take into account when reviewing:

1. What %age of graduates are actually working in the CS field vs. working for a hedge fund or some other higher-paying profession;
2. How many graduates are working in higher cost of living / higher salary areas...Boston, NYC, SFO will pay higher salaries for the same job vs. a U Michigan graduate that stays in MI...even the same company will pay differently based on location;
3. How many graduates are working for start-ups that will pay lower salaries but offer stock and other incentives...that likely pulls down the median for MIT, Stanford, etc. I bet someone that started at Google in 1997 likely had just an OK salary by 2002 but possibly stock options worth $10MM+...not sure that is captured in any of this data

Now, you may argue that the value of the top schools is the optionality...however, there has never been a study showing that an MIT grad working for Google in Boston makes more than a UMD grad working for Google in Boston in the identical role. That doesn't happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG, this nonsense again? Do yourself a favor and read Dale and Kruger, then ignore this.

Please stop with the Dale and Kruger nonsense.

Sure, as soon as someone gets their research debunking it published 3 times with over 3 decades of data.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG, this nonsense again? Do yourself a favor and read Dale and Kruger, then ignore this.

This is one of the most important factors you should consider unless you are a trust fund kid and from a rich family.

This effort has initiated under the Obama administration with Department of Education as there are too much bullshit going in the higher education industry so consumers are better equipped when they make decisions.

This is not some magazine promotion.

The data and information is from FAFSA, IRS, loan servicing organizations.

No data/information is perfect and open to certain degree of interpretation, but this is one of the most important factors to take a look when you choose your school/major.

If it doesn't control for all variables, then it has little use. It looks like there's likely a very strong relationship between earnings and SAT score, for instance, and possibly between earnings and geographic location. Maybe those are the determining factors, not the college.

Anonymous wrote:OMG, this nonsense again? Do yourself a favor and read Dale and Kruger, then ignore this.

Please stop with the Dale and Kruger nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:This is useless and misleading.

+1 It only shows those who took out federal loans. Sure, it excludes those who are full pay, but that also excludes some UMC/MC families who sent their kids to cheap in state schools with a 529.

It also doesn't take into account *where* they are working. $150K in Silicon Valley doesn't take you that far. $100K in Philly takes you a lot further.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-majors/computer-science

I used to work in the Bay Area. When I moved to the DC area, and looked at salaries for my level, it was so much lower. Luckily, my Bay Area employer let me keep my Bay Area salary.

This is useless and misleading.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are these salaries pulled from kids who are working in CS jobs? I imagine a number of CS kids from the Ivies go into finance or consulting and that could skew the salary data higher for those schools.

It doesn't matter.
In fact schools like Brown has relatively smaller CS school/department compared to CMU, Cornell, Berkeley, etc., and it sends big percentage to to top IB, Finance with super high salary.

CMU, Cornell, Berkeley, etc. have more kids and they are spread out. They send more kids to traditional IT industries.
Hence Brown number is higher, but you can take that into an account when looking at the data.

It doesn't matter where the CS kids go, it's just shows high demand.

It does matter if you are a kid who wants to actually work in CS and want to know what people in CS are earning. They don't care what lawyers and consultants who happen to also have CS degree are doing. So it is misleading information at best.

The data doesn’t work for DC’s school. Every major I entered gave the same result. It doesn’t appear the data per major was analyzed.

Again Northwestern seems to be very much overrated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is recently updated information

The median annual earnings of individuals that received federal student aid and began college at this institution 10 years ago, regardless of their completion status.

So the data is limited to students who received federal student aid. It's not a university -wide data.

It actually make the data/information much more useful and real.

Nobody cares where Trump's son goes, majors, and makes after graduation.

The data is for anyone who got any sort of federal aid - grant, subsidized, unsubsidized, parent loans, etc.
It eliminates much of the skew from those trust fund rich kid with fancy connections.

Anonymous wrote:Are these salaries pulled from kids who are working in CS jobs? I imagine a number of CS kids from the Ivies go into finance or consulting and that could skew the salary data higher for those schools.

It doesn't matter.
In fact schools like Brown has relatively smaller CS school/department compared to CMU, Cornell, Berkeley, etc., and it sends big percentage to to top IB, Finance with super high salary.

CMU, Cornell, Berkeley, etc. have more kids and they are spread out. They send more kids to traditional IT industries.
Hence Brown number is higher, but you can take that into an account when looking at the data.

It doesn't matter where the CS kids go, it's just shows high demand.

Are these salaries pulled from kids who are working in CS jobs? I imagine a number of CS kids from the Ivies go into finance or consulting and that could skew the salary data higher for those schools.