Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 14:16     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations


Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.


You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.


I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.


OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.



Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 14:10     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:We have roughly $200k left on our mortgage for a home in a desirable suburb where houses sell for $800k+.

HHI low $300k (mortgage just under $2k/month)

College tuition is admittedly ridiculous (with one currently in college and two more who will be over the course of the next decade).

Our house desperately needs renovations. This is a need, not a frivolous want.

-Original 1980s kitchen and bathrooms

-Original (horrible) 1980s windows, siding (which a contractor actually told us is better than what is made today and we should leave it), faded shutters, warped gutters, garage doors that are peeling and temperamental, framing around door is peeling, etc.

-Original tiles in foyer and kitchen are terrible.

-Original interior doors are awful (some sliders don’t function)

-Our 90s/early 2000s furniture is shabby.

I’d like to tap into home equity to update everything. Not high end, but middle of the road. My philosophy is to do it now so we can enjoy it. Surely we will recover some of this when we sell 15+ years from now.

How do I convince spouse?

What’s a ballpark amount to use as a guideline?

Admittedly we have been spending money on travel over the last decade rather than update the house.

We don’t have room to cut back since we live rather frugally (kids in public, old cars, no housekeeper or landscaper, etc.).


Hiring painters goes a long way. Sounds like exterior would do that for you. For your kitchen I’m guessing the cabinets need updating. Can you paint them white if they are not melamine? I actually peeled the melamine off of mine since it was already peeling. Again paint makes a huge difference. Good luck. I bet your counters will feel totally different with white cabinets.

Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 14:05     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations


Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.


You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.


I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.


OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 14:02     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
OP, I feel you. I think you can DIY a lot of this stuff! Have you watched Rental Redo on Magnolia Network? It's all about cost-effective improvements that you can easily make. Watch some videos, pick up a paintbrush, it really isn't so hard. A project will help you with your frustration!

The shutters for example, you can strip and re-paint yourself. It's a bit tedious but it isn't difficult.

For the kitchen, lay some tile over the tile you have. Stick-on tile. https://thepageedit.com/how-we-transformed-our-kitchen-with-peel-stick-tile/

Rent an upholstery cleaner at Home Depot and steam clean all the furniture. It will look much better. Try rearranging the furniture a bit for a fresh look. You can get a lot of free stuff on Buy Nothing groups, which you can paint or restore.

For money, go through all your clothes and stuff, and sell whatever you can on Poshmark. Sell anything in the house that you can. You'll feel so much better with less clutter. Get your DH to agree to a certain amount per month to spend on home maintenance (don't call it "improvement" or "decorating"), and invest that into the things that bother you the most.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 13:07     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations


Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.


You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.


I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.


Are they falling apart or do you just not like them? Fix the stuff that is falling apart.


My 1980s cabinets in the kitchen and bathrooms are warping. The tile floors are a mess. Several windows won’t stay open anymore.

I wonder how many other posters have builder-grade 1980s fixtures? If you don’t know, you don’t know.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 13:03     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations


Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.


You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.


I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.


Are they falling apart or do you just not like them? Fix the stuff that is falling apart.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 13:01     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
None of your list is necessary except to fix gutters and peeling paint.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:59     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:Paint the gutters and the exterior of the house including the garage and shutters. This will improve the appearance of the house immensely and protect it from further damage from the elements. Have a handyman fix the broken slider doors and replace fixtures that don't work well or tarnished. The furniture can be reupholstered/restuffed/slipcovered. Floors can be professionally cleaned/stained/polished.


Fresh coat of paint anywhere does wonders!
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:46     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Paint the gutters and the exterior of the house including the garage and shutters. This will improve the appearance of the house immensely and protect it from further damage from the elements. Have a handyman fix the broken slider doors and replace fixtures that don't work well or tarnished. The furniture can be reupholstered/restuffed/slipcovered. Floors can be professionally cleaned/stained/polished.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:42     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:We have roughly $200k left on our mortgage for a home in a desirable suburb where houses sell for $800k+.

HHI low $300k (mortgage just under $2k/month)

College tuition is admittedly ridiculous (with one currently in college and two more who will be over the course of the next decade).

Our house desperately needs renovations. This is a need, not a frivolous want.

-Original 1980s kitchen and bathrooms

-Original (horrible) 1980s windows, siding (which a contractor actually told us is better than what is made today and we should leave it), faded shutters, warped gutters, garage doors that are peeling and temperamental, framing around door is peeling, etc.

-Original tiles in foyer and kitchen are terrible.

-Original interior doors are awful (some sliders don’t function)

-Our 90s/early 2000s furniture is shabby.

I’d like to tap into home equity to update everything. Not high end, but middle of the road. My philosophy is to do it now so we can enjoy it. Surely we will recover some of this when we sell 15+ years from now.

How do I convince spouse?

What’s a ballpark amount to use as a guideline?

Admittedly we have been spending money on travel over the last decade rather than update the house.

We don’t have room to cut back since we live rather frugally (kids in public, old cars, no housekeeper or landscaper, etc.).


Maybe over the next decade you save that money you were spending on travel and then renovate. Unfortunately, the vast majority of us can't have it all all at once. Its called being a responsible grown up.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:39     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We don’t know your college tuition situation. That’s the big one.

Renovations that you pay a contractor to do are not going to be a good investment, ever. They may be justified, for sure. It sounds like they are. But you are wrong if you think they’ll be a good financial investment.

Pay for them in cash as you go. Don’t borrow more money with all this tuition on the horizon.

Alternatively, since your youngest is almost out of the nest, just sell this place and move somewhere that’s turnkey in a couple years. Let a flipper, or someone who will will really need your old neighborhood and schools, take the financial hit changing the 1980s kitchen.


We have 7 years before the youngest goes to college, so we can’t move. We love the neighborhood. New construction in our area is well north of $1M. All the resales aren’t turnkey. They are other people’s renovations from a decade or so ago precisely because people renovate so they can enjoy it.

We will get good money for our home when we sell down the road because we have the largest model with bells and whistles that other homes don’t have. Plus our lot and Street are highly desirable.

Sigh. I guess I’ll continue to live in squalor.


Sounding a bit dramatic OP.
Regardless, I am guessing that with your husband is focused on the fact that you are already dealing with a college tuition and have TWO more to go. It does not sound like you have those tuitions fully funded or do you? If not, your husband is being way more financially responsible and I give him credit for putting your kids first. Giving your kids the incredible gift of no or little college debt vs. an updated house is a no brainer - invest in your kids.


At some point we both have pensions and investments that will support us quite nicely in retirement. If we borrow now and downsize later, I think the math works in favor of renovations now.

Someday we will land in a 2 bedroom condo or a simple 3 bedroom SFH in a much lower cost area.

Plus, there’s a modest inheritance on the horizon in the next 5-10 years (that would likely cover college tuition for all kids).



OP, you are working so hard on this thread to convince all of us when there was no need to post here in the first place. It is a common DCUM trope, but you have more of a "husband problem" than anything else. You and he are not on the same page and it sounds like are not financially compatible in the way you view things. You are asking us to help you convince him. He is not comfortable with the finances of your vision. His opinion matters, full stop. Not ours.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:38     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations


Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.


You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.


I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:11     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations


Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.


You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:09     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How much will the monthly payment on the HELOC be? You say you don’t have much wiggle room to cut back so I’m wondering how you plan to finance the new debt.


HHI in low $300s with a $1700 mortgage payment currently. We save plenty each month (bc we don’t have car payments, cleaning service, landscapers, etc.). Plenty goes into retirement and college savings/tuition. Both of us have pensions.

I think my spouse is being too conservative.


You have money but you are living in a crappy home because you want to save money? Saving for what? Retirement?
Ok, it’s when you retire that you are going to move to a better house? Maybe that’s your spouse’s plan?
Tell your spouse that you don’t want to live a miserable life now. Tell your spouse that the kids also deserve to live in an enjoyable life in a decent house in their childhood.


That’s what I’m struggling to do. They aren’t listening.

I didn’t marry a risk-taker.

Since I’m not convinced I’ll make to my late 70s or 80s, I’m even more inclined to invest in our happiness now.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2023 12:05     Subject: How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How much will the monthly payment on the HELOC be? You say you don’t have much wiggle room to cut back so I’m wondering how you plan to finance the new debt.


HHI in low $300s with a $1700 mortgage payment currently. We save plenty each month (bc we don’t have car payments, cleaning service, landscapers, etc.). Plenty goes into retirement and college savings/tuition. Both of us have pensions.

I think my spouse is being too conservative.


You have money but you are living in a crappy home because you want to save money? Saving for what? Retirement?
Ok, it’s when you retire that you are going to move to a better house? Maybe that’s your spouse’s plan?
Tell your spouse that you don’t want to live a miserable life now. Tell your spouse that the kids also deserve to live in an enjoyable life in a decent house in their childhood.