Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Punishment for what?

Pay for their own bail, pay for the lawyer.

Sibling arguments, chore refusal, refusing to do something for sibling or parent in a time of panic etc

I can't imagine punishing an adult for arguing with their sibling. And you don't assign chores to another adult. If they are living at home, they are expected to pick up after themselves and do their share of household tasks, just as they would if they were living with roommates. If they are unwilling to carry their weight, then (1) I'd stop doing chores and favors that benefit them and (2) we'd be setting a timeline for them to move out.

And I'd need more facts about "refusing to do something" in a "time of panic." What was the emergency? What did you want them to do? Was it really necessary for them to do that? Would doing that require them to, say, miss work? Generally, I just don't do favors for people who don't reciprocate, so the natural consequences of refusing to help out in a pinch would be that they shouldn't expect me to help them out when they are in a jam, barring actual or imminent bodily injury or danger.

Yeah, refusing to do something in a "time of panic" is a red flag for me because this indicates that the PARENT was in a panic and was asking their kid to help them out of a jam. This indicates a parent who operates on an emergency basis a lot and expects their children to pick up the slack. Problematic, to say the least. The fact that now that parent is looking to punish the child for not helping them out of a jam just speaks to a very dysfunctional relationship, likely one in which their adult child has been parentified and is probably fighting back against it now that they are not legally a minor.

The thing that's the red flag for me is that OP even came up with this as an example, suggesting that it's something that happens regularly. How many emergencies do you have, that your adult child not helping out is a major issue?

It could have just been once, but then it seems like the kind of thing that you'd have some patience with an 18 year old for. Who is well-equipped to handle an emergency at 18? Most people aren't and I think most people would try to skirt that responsibility out of fear of failure or just feeling overwhelmed. It might not be your proudest moment as a parent, but I feel like I'd look at that and say "ok, I wish you'd been able to show up for your sister when I fell down at work and had to go to the hospital, but I understand that was a scary and overwhelming situation for you that you haven't dealt with before and you didn't feel up to it in that moment." Like I'm trying to think of a family emergency where I'd just be unforgiving of a young adult who wasn't able to handle it perfectly and I can't. Odds are good that if it was an emergency moment for OP or another child, it was also an emergency moment for the 18 year old, and some empathy is in order. That's a lot to put on a very young adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are adults. Time for punishment is over.

Essentially this. But pulling financial support is always an option. They don't need to live in my house if they are not acting like responsible adults.

That’s not a punishment necessarily, it’s just a boundary in the relationship. You’re an adult, you’re making your own decisions and you need to pay your way. I would not do it in response to a specific action or to get a specific outcome like you’re holding mine over their head though. You would not want someone to do that to you.

Anonymous wrote:It’s very easy to say “my house my rules” or “if you don’t like the rules pay for XYZ yourself” but if you purposely inhibit your child from having the financial means to pay for XYZ on a continual basis (such as withholding the car necessary to get to work), it’s because you like being able to control your adult child with money. If you told your teen they aren’t allowed to work, of course they don’t have money, and you like that because it makes them easier to control.

THIS. Parents who are still trying to punish their kids after they are legally adults are likely locked into a codependent relationship with them and don't like this person having independence. They set them up to fail and then "punish" them when they do, because they don't know how to shift their parent-child relationship away from one of dependency and control to one of independence and support.

My parents became jealous of my siblings and at this stage in our lives. They made mistakes in their late teens/early 20s that resulted in marriage and a family and a lot of responsibility at a young age. So when we hit that age my parents were mad that we were getting to do things they had not gotten to do. Rather than be proud of us for making good choices and having bright futures, they became petty and controlling and would fly into a rage about stuff like missing a family birthday to take a final, or choosing to take a summer job far away so we couldn't stay and help them with childcare. It was really dysfunctional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Punishment for what?

Pay for their own bail, pay for the lawyer.

Sibling arguments, chore refusal, refusing to do something for sibling or parent in a time of panic etc

I can't imagine punishing an adult for arguing with their sibling. And you don't assign chores to another adult. If they are living at home, they are expected to pick up after themselves and do their share of household tasks, just as they would if they were living with roommates. If they are unwilling to carry their weight, then (1) I'd stop doing chores and favors that benefit them and (2) we'd be setting a timeline for them to move out.

And I'd need more facts about "refusing to do something" in a "time of panic." What was the emergency? What did you want them to do? Was it really necessary for them to do that? Would doing that require them to, say, miss work? Generally, I just don't do favors for people who don't reciprocate, so the natural consequences of refusing to help out in a pinch would be that they shouldn't expect me to help them out when they are in a jam, barring actual or imminent bodily injury or danger.

Yeah, refusing to do something in a "time of panic" is a red flag for me because this indicates that the PARENT was in a panic and was asking their kid to help them out of a jam. This indicates a parent who operates on an emergency basis a lot and expects their children to pick up the slack. Problematic, to say the least. The fact that now that parent is looking to punish the child for not helping them out of a jam just speaks to a very dysfunctional relationship, likely one in which their adult child has been parentified and is probably fighting back against it now that they are not legally a minor.

The thing that's the red flag for me is that OP even came up with this as an example, suggesting that it's something that happens regularly. How many emergencies do you have, that your adult child not helping out is a major issue?

Anonymous wrote:I think consequences are fine. Punishments are not.

This. If your adult child doesn't clean up their room or do their laundry while living in your house, then the consequence is that you go into their room to clean up anything that poses a health hazard (which they will likely see as a violation of privacy) and also let them know that anything really gross will be throw away. Also don't do their laundry for them and then they don't have clean clothes. Natural consequences are really helpful for incentivizing peopel to do basic life skills. Usually if an adult child is really resisting this stuff, it's because the parent has enabled this behavior by cleaning up for them and doing their laundry for them for years.

Also, the stuff about arguing with a sibling... if it's physical fighting the consequence is you need to leave the house because you have to protect your minor child and it's okay to have a zero tolerance policy towards violence in the home (especially for adults). If it's just bickering... sounds like a broken family dynamic that needs to be addressed with actual parenting, like sitting down with your kids and finding a way for them to resolve disagreements more functionally. That's not a punishment situation. The younger child also needs to learn better ways to resolve disagreements. This is an opportunity to do your job as a parent.

Your 18 yr old should not be your fail safe in case of an emergency. And if they don't step up, they shouldn't be punished for it. It sounds like you screwed up and are mad at them for not bailing you out.

You've really got to unpack a situation where 18+ yo are being "punished." They are adults, if they screw up they should learn from their mistakes. If they mess up something related to a privilege parents pay for (car, college etc) it's reasonable that the privilege be reconsidered in a short or medium term way. But please don't put a young adult through "I'm taking away your phone" BS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Punishment for what?

Pay for their own bail, pay for the lawyer.

Sibling arguments, chore refusal, refusing to do something for sibling or parent in a time of panic etc

I can't imagine punishing an adult for arguing with their sibling. And you don't assign chores to another adult. If they are living at home, they are expected to pick up after themselves and do their share of household tasks, just as they would if they were living with roommates. If they are unwilling to carry their weight, then (1) I'd stop doing chores and favors that benefit them and (2) we'd be setting a timeline for them to move out.

And I'd need more facts about "refusing to do something" in a "time of panic." What was the emergency? What did you want them to do? Was it really necessary for them to do that? Would doing that require them to, say, miss work? Generally, I just don't do favors for people who don't reciprocate, so the natural consequences of refusing to help out in a pinch would be that they shouldn't expect me to help them out when they are in a jam, barring actual or imminent bodily injury or danger.

Yeah, refusing to do something in a "time of panic" is a red flag for me because this indicates that the PARENT was in a panic and was asking their kid to help them out of a jam. This indicates a parent who operates on an emergency basis a lot and expects their children to pick up the slack. Problematic, to say the least. The fact that now that parent is looking to punish the child for not helping them out of a jam just speaks to a very dysfunctional relationship, likely one in which their adult child has been parentified and is probably fighting back against it now that they are not legally a minor.

I think consequences are fine. Punishments are not.

By 18 you shouldn't be issuing punishments. I'm sorry but if you are threatening punishments to an 18 year old, you already failed AND your kid is old enough to know you failed and that means any system of punishment will be broken.

Even if you have financial punishments you can levy (taking away phone or spending money, threatening to reduce tuition contribution, etc.), they are likely to backfire or not work out the way you want. Like say you take their phone away. They aren't going to go without a phone (they honestly can't, it's a basic need at this point). So they'll find a way to get one, and since they are a legal adult, there will be nothing you can do about it. Maybe they do something reasonable to get one, like get a job. Great for them. But what have the learned in terms of your relationship? They can't count on you but they can count on themselves when they need something, so next time they'll just do it on their own. Maybe that's your goal but usually parents who are talking about punishing adults actually want to keep those people under their thumbs, and will be mad when their kid just distances themselves. Ask yourself if that's what you want.

Alternatively they might do something stupid or irresponsible to get their phone/make rent/meet tuition payment. They might borrow money, run up a credit card bill, default on a bill, commit a crime, or do any number of desperate, dumb things. Will this make you happy? Is this the desired result? Think.

At this age, what you need to be able to do is have a conversation with them and reach some kind of agreement or compromise that works for both of you. The same way you would with any other adult relationship, like your marriage or your relationship with your own parents. For this you need trust, honesty, patience, and empathy. Punishment is counter-productive to all of those things -- it will make them feel infantilized and controlled, as well as misunderstood. They'll lash out and you'll feel disrespected and unappreciated. It's a terrible cycle.

This is why, by high school, you need to be cultivating a relationship with your kids where they make some of their own decisions, you support them in the ways that make sense, and you talk through disagreements and resolve differences in a mutually respectful way that acknowledges they are no longer a child. It should be a gradual process -- you aren't yanking away your protection and support all of a sudden. But they should be taking on more of their decision-making burden themselves and should come to see you more as a support and advisor, than as the decider, by the time they hit 18. This is how you help them learn to make good choices, and also help them learn to deal with bad choices when they happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Punishment for what?

Pay for their own bail, pay for the lawyer.

Sibling arguments, chore refusal, refusing to do something for sibling or parent in a time of panic etc

I can't imagine punishing an adult for arguing with their sibling. And you don't assign chores to another adult. If they are living at home, they are expected to pick up after themselves and do their share of household tasks, just as they would if they were living with roommates. If they are unwilling to carry their weight, then (1) I'd stop doing chores and favors that benefit them and (2) we'd be setting a timeline for them to move out.

And I'd need more facts about "refusing to do something" in a "time of panic." What was the emergency? What did you want them to do? Was it really necessary for them to do that? Would doing that require them to, say, miss work? Generally, I just don't do favors for people who don't reciprocate, so the natural consequences of refusing to help out in a pinch would be that they shouldn't expect me to help them out when they are in a jam, barring actual or imminent bodily injury or danger.

My parents blatantly favorited my sibling over a long period of time & my developed refusal to let my irresponsible, entitled sibling “borrow” my phone, clothing, money and other things at the drop of a hat counted as me being “argumentative” & “difficult” in my parent’s eyes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Punishment for what?

Pay for their own bail, pay for the lawyer.

Sibling arguments, chore refusal, refusing to do something for sibling or parent in a time of panic etc

Time for them to get their own place. We don't have chores for adults, but they are expected to clean up after themselves. Time to grow up.

Pick your battles. Don’t miss the forest for the trees, and don’t burn bridges with your kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Punishment for what?

Pay for their own bail, pay for the lawyer.

Sibling arguments, chore refusal, refusing to do something for sibling or parent in a time of panic etc

Stop paying for their car, insurance, phone, food, clothes, charge them rent. If they don’t straighten up give them 3 months to find their own place. And stick to it, no empty threats.

It’s very easy to say “my house my rules” or “if you don’t like the rules pay for XYZ yourself” but if you purposely inhibit your child from having the financial means to pay for XYZ on a continual basis (such as withholding the car necessary to get to work), it’s because you like being able to control your adult child with money. If you told your teen they aren’t allowed to work, of course they don’t have money, and you like that because it makes them easier to control.