Yes, and let's look at Chicago a city which has the most draconian gun control laws, yet experiences the highest incidence of gun violence, especially in the black community.

The guns come from Indiana.

I hear what you’re saying in the title of this thread, but honestly many of these kids’ parents will be dying young as well, so they may not even be around to bury their child. Addiction, violence, and despair are not evenly distributed in the population. Unfortunately many communities and families have much more than their share.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly love to see gun control measures passed but I worry the most about traffic safety. We are a car-obsessed country.

That's a mistake, as gun deaths have now passed traffic deaths as the biggest cause of death for kids. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

We should care about both. Countries that have taken dramatic steps to reduce one have usually also taken dramatic steps to reduce the other. Often around the same time in history. Countries like the Netherlands were motivated to totally redesign their transportation infrastructure back in the 70s because of the number of children being killed in traffic accidents, and they also passed strict gun control laws around the same time. It's a reflection of a culture that highly values the safety and welfare of children.

These countries also do things like give money to all families so they can feed and clothe their kids regardless off income (Finland) or provide extensive post-natal care and parental leaves and subsidized childcare, and this is done largely to benefit kids, not parents (though it does benefit parents). The idea is that children deserve the best possible start in life. And this stuff isn't restricted to Scandinavia. You see more child-centric policies in Africa, Asia, the Mid-East, than you do in the US. Often these policies are portrayed as feminist or pro-women, but that's not how they are conceptualized elsewhere. They are pro-child.

Americans do not value children. We do not value their lives, their education, their happiness. Our individualistic culture extends even to children. It's like a cult.

Scandinavian counties are not the be all , end all of nirvana. I know from experience. I have an idea, don't have children you can't afford to support, that what DH and I did when planning our family. We knew our income potential and its' limits and although both of us would have loved a large family it was two and done for us. It's what we both knew we could comfortably afford and support without depending on handouts from the government.

You are talking about adults and she is talking about pro-child policies. YOU are the problem. Simple-minded and blind to your own haughtiness. A kid does not make a choice to be born. You are punishing children for the decisions of the adults.

And if you know from experience, I assume you grew up in Scandinavian countries? So had all the benefits of the policies we are discussing?

A social safety net is part of the fabric of any civilized society. I believe in personal responsibility but I don’t believe in children suffering for the sins of their fathers. Everyone deserves a safe place to live, health care, food, and opportunities. But maybe you don’t believe in that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly love to see gun control measures passed but I worry the most about traffic safety. We are a car-obsessed country.

That's a mistake, as gun deaths have now passed traffic deaths as the biggest cause of death for kids. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

We should care about both. Countries that have taken dramatic steps to reduce one have usually also taken dramatic steps to reduce the other. Often around the same time in history. Countries like the Netherlands were motivated to totally redesign their transportation infrastructure back in the 70s because of the number of children being killed in traffic accidents, and they also passed strict gun control laws around the same time. It's a reflection of a culture that highly values the safety and welfare of children.

These countries also do things like give money to all families so they can feed and clothe their kids regardless off income (Finland) or provide extensive post-natal care and parental leaves and subsidized childcare, and this is done largely to benefit kids, not parents (though it does benefit parents). The idea is that children deserve the best possible start in life. And this stuff isn't restricted to Scandinavia. You see more child-centric policies in Africa, Asia, the Mid-East, than you do in the US. Often these policies are portrayed as feminist or pro-women, but that's not how they are conceptualized elsewhere. They are pro-child.

Americans do not value children. We do not value their lives, their education, their happiness. Our individualistic culture extends even to children. It's like a cult.

Scandinavian counties are not the be all , end all of nirvana. I know from experience. I have an idea, don't have children you can't afford to support, that what DH and I did when planning our family. We knew our income potential and its' limits and although both of us would have loved a large family it was two and done for us. It's what we both knew we could comfortably afford and support without depending on handouts from the government.

You are talking about adults and she is talking about pro-child policies. YOU are the problem. Simple-minded and blind to your own haughtiness. A kid does not make a choice to be born. You are punishing children for the decisions of the adults.

And if you know from experience, I assume you grew up in Scandinavian countries? So had all the benefits of the policies we are discussing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly love to see gun control measures passed but I worry the most about traffic safety. We are a car-obsessed country.

That's a mistake, as gun deaths have now passed traffic deaths as the biggest cause of death for kids. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

We should care about both. Countries that have taken dramatic steps to reduce one have usually also taken dramatic steps to reduce the other. Often around the same time in history. Countries like the Netherlands were motivated to totally redesign their transportation infrastructure back in the 70s because of the number of children being killed in traffic accidents, and they also passed strict gun control laws around the same time. It's a reflection of a culture that highly values the safety and welfare of children.

These countries also do things like give money to all families so they can feed and clothe their kids regardless off income (Finland) or provide extensive post-natal care and parental leaves and subsidized childcare, and this is done largely to benefit kids, not parents (though it does benefit parents). The idea is that children deserve the best possible start in life. And this stuff isn't restricted to Scandinavia. You see more child-centric policies in Africa, Asia, the Mid-East, than you do in the US. Often these policies are portrayed as feminist or pro-women, but that's not how they are conceptualized elsewhere. They are pro-child.

Americans do not value children. We do not value their lives, their education, their happiness. Our individualistic culture extends even to children. It's like a cult.

+100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly love to see gun control measures passed but I worry the most about traffic safety. We are a car-obsessed country.

That's a mistake, as gun deaths have now passed traffic deaths as the biggest cause of death for kids. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

If you look at the data, the biggest increase is in gun homicides among Black teens. Tripled since 2013.

Yes, and let's look at Chicago a city which has the most draconian gun control laws, yet experiences the highest incidence of gun violence, especially in the black community. So yes, gun control is a great topic to spout off about but does it really work? Are we then going to take away all the knives and sharp objects? If an evil person, and that's who the nashville shooter women was, wants to cause harm and use physical violence they will find a way. I think it's much better to properly secure our buildings and stop declaring these places as gun free zones which only encourages people like the nashville shooter. She knew it was low on security and she could get in there easily. JFC, let's be smart and protect our children with the technology and knowledge and man power we have, it's easier then you might think. And if society would stop demonizing every single cop as a horrible person our children could find some comfort in their presence. We need to be smarter and pro active, this constant cry about taking legal guns away from legal gun owners is never going to work.

This is an unintelligent argument. Clearly no one taught you critical thinking. A few points.

Most Chicago gun violence is due to gangs, and most of those guns were purchased in Illinois. Roots of gang violence include poverty and racism, among other things.

Gun control does work. Look at countries like Japan where guns are permitted but there are tight requirements to get one. The country of 125 million had 9
Gun deaths in 2019. Yes, 9. How many did the US have? Nearly 40,000. Including nearly 3,400 children.

No of course you don’t take away knives and sharp objects. Because those items cannot literally kill dozens of people in a matter of seconds. Assault rifles were designed to murder people as quickly and easily as possible with no chance of survival. That is why they are so deadly. If you take those away and make gun control laws tighter you will save thousands of lives.

Having worked and volunteered at many public and private schools, there is simply no way to ensure the kind of security you think is possible without a budget upwards of hundreds of thousands of dollars or more per year per school. There are multiple entrances, multiple people coming and going at any given time, and no budget anywhere to implement the type of staffing and surveillance needed that you think would prevent an act of violence like this. The reality is that every place in our country is vulnerable to a crazy person with an assault rifle. There is no safe yoga studio, classroom, church, mosque: synagogue, bank, preschool, grocery store, bar, concert, movie theatre, etc. that is immune from the risk.

Sure, evil people will always find a way. But with a knife or baseball bat, or even a shot gun, she is far less deadly.

Do you value human life? Then you should care about protecting people’s right to live without being murdered, Children’s right to grow up, and all of our rights to live in a society where we cans grocery shop, go to a movie, go to work and school, worship, and live our lives without the threat of being a victim of a psycho with an AR-15.

Having lived abroad I can assure you that the rest of the world does not understand the Us. They think we are crazy to allow so many of our citizens to die every year without enforcing tighter gun control laws. They don’t understand why it’s harder to get birth control here, or Sudafed.

The answer to this problem is not to outlaw guns. Personally, I hate them and think people should only own them for war or hunting, and then only with massive hurdles to obtain one, but I am realistic and know the answer lies in the gray. Allowing guns, but making them harder to get and outlawing things that make them more deadly and capable of mass murder quickly. That is the gray. That is what most American believe and want, not just unfettered access to any Tom, dick, or harry who wants an assault rifle and forcing the majority of the population to forego their safety and mental health to facilitate that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly love to see gun control measures passed but I worry the most about traffic safety. We are a car-obsessed country.

That's a mistake, as gun deaths have now passed traffic deaths as the biggest cause of death for kids. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

If you look at the data, the biggest increase is in gun homicides among Black teens. Tripled since 2013.

What are you saying? It’s just black teens so who cares?

DP - I think it’s actually the opposite. Saying 1 in 25 sounds shocking, but when you factor in racial/ethnic disparities, the numbers are likely much worse for some groups and much better for others. That’s the problem - we need targeted solutions specific to the factors driving deaths in specific populations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do we tolerate it? Because I'm betting most of these deaths occur in poor people and we don't have a great track record of giving a rat's ass about them.

Yes, school shootings are the equalizer because they happen in wealthy areas too (schools, shopping areas, concerts, etc.) and as we just saw in Nashville, private schools (I am betting that will become a lot more common in the next few years). But as a PP said, a lot of the gun deaths are not mass shootings and are people in gangs or high crime areas or even low crime areas but late at night etc.

And overdoses - whites are most affected by opioid overdoses and all classes are affected but a lot of the deaths are still occurring in poorer, rural areas.

If you are doing okay financially in America you probably have access to decent health and child care, safe neighborhoods, etc. but all bets are off if you are poor.

Opiod and fentanyl related deaths do not just occur in poor, rural areas. That is a myth. 120% increase in youth overdose deaths Montgomery County from 2021 to 2022. It will continue to climb, and affects poor and wealthy alike. It only takes one pill.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/youth-overdose-deaths-increased-by-120-in-montgomery-county

All pills on the street are now laced with fentanyl, which is deadly in small amounts. This explains a large proportion of drug overdoses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do we tolerate it? Because I'm betting most of these deaths occur in poor people and we don't have a great track record of giving a rat's ass about them.

Yes, school shootings are the equalizer because they happen in wealthy areas too (schools, shopping areas, concerts, etc.) and as we just saw in Nashville, private schools (I am betting that will become a lot more common in the next few years). But as a PP said, a lot of the gun deaths are not mass shootings and are people in gangs or high crime areas or even low crime areas but late at night etc.

And overdoses - whites are most affected by opioid overdoses and all classes are affected but a lot of the deaths are still occurring in poorer, rural areas.

If you are doing okay financially in America you probably have access to decent health and child care, safe neighborhoods, etc. but all bets are off if you are poor.

Opiod and fentanyl related deaths do not just occur in poor, rural areas. That is a myth. 120% increase in youth overdose deaths Montgomery County from 2021 to 2022. It will continue to climb, and affects poor and wealthy alike. It only takes one pill.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/youth-overdose-deaths-increased-by-120-in-montgomery-county

Among wealthier people, the risk is often not in the form of a pill, it's in the form of laced cocaine.

Anonymous wrote:How do we tolerate it? Because I'm betting most of these deaths occur in poor people and we don't have a great track record of giving a rat's ass about them.

Yes, school shootings are the equalizer because they happen in wealthy areas too (schools, shopping areas, concerts, etc.) and as we just saw in Nashville, private schools (I am betting that will become a lot more common in the next few years). But as a PP said, a lot of the gun deaths are not mass shootings and are people in gangs or high crime areas or even low crime areas but late at night etc.

And overdoses - whites are most affected by opioid overdoses and all classes are affected but a lot of the deaths are still occurring in poorer, rural areas.

If you are doing okay financially in America you probably have access to decent health and child care, safe neighborhoods, etc. but all bets are off if you are poor.

Opiod and fentanyl related deaths do not just occur in poor, rural areas. That is a myth. 120% increase in youth overdose deaths Montgomery County from 2021 to 2022. It will continue to climb, and affects poor and wealthy alike. It only takes one pill.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/youth-overdose-deaths-increased-by-120-in-montgomery-county

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly love to see gun control measures passed but I worry the most about traffic safety. We are a car-obsessed country.

That's a mistake, as gun deaths have now passed traffic deaths as the biggest cause of death for kids. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/14/magazine/gun-violence-children-data-statistics.html

And at least cars have important, often life-saving uses.

Guns on the other hand... their chief purpose is a design to kill or harm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly love to see gun control measures passed but I worry the most about traffic safety. We are a car-obsessed country.

+1. My husband was hit while walking to the subway last week by an SUV likely going around 20 MPH. The culprit was a crazy mom bringing her son to middle school. She had total visibility, but I assume was busy doing something else. My husband is 6'1 and 185 and he broke bones in his back and needed staples in his head. I keep thinking what if he was a kid or what if he was a smaller adult. Our cities are really built for driving in a way that many other cities are not. I also feel law our traffic laws favor cars over pedestrians and bikers to a large extent. You can basically kill someone and as long as you don't flee the scene you're fine.

Out of curiosity—was the driver turning left? I have almost been hit about 4 times by a driver turning left and cutting through the crosswalk where o had the light without looking for crossing pedestrians. Two of the times the driver had swerved around a different driver who had stopped to yield to me. One of the times the driver actually hit my wide leg pant leg with their bumper, so was within a half inch of my leg. Often the drivers are accelerating into the turn so that they don’t miss the green or orange so definitely aren’t expecting to yield to pedestrians. I don’t know how to teach drivers that this is really important to yield. Someone was killed outside my office the same way—driver turning left just mowed her over in the crosswalk.

The fastest increasing one is "deaths of despair..."

Overdoses, especially related to opioids, but also deaths related to alcoholism (cirrhosis of the liver has been rising as a cause of death in the US) and suicides.

How do we tolerate it? Because I'm betting most of these deaths occur in poor people and we don't have a great track record of giving a rat's ass about them.

Yes, school shootings are the equalizer because they happen in wealthy areas too (schools, shopping areas, concerts, etc.) and as we just saw in Nashville, private schools (I am betting that will become a lot more common in the next few years). But as a PP said, a lot of the gun deaths are not mass shootings and are people in gangs or high crime areas or even low crime areas but late at night etc.

And overdoses - whites are most affected by opioid overdoses and all classes are affected but a lot of the deaths are still occurring in poorer, rural areas.

If you are doing okay financially in America you probably have access to decent health and child care, safe neighborhoods, etc. but all bets are off if you are poor.

It’s gun violence and drugs. Mass shooting get all of the headlines, but the reality is that most of the gun deaths are gang members shooting each other and stuff like that.