Anonymous wrote:OP here. To clarify on all of the discussion above, the answer box was correctly filled in as x=23, she just finished her “show your work” section with 23. Given there’s an answer box, she didn’t pay as much attention to the presentation of her final answer in her work. Sounds here like that should be deemed incorrect, which is fine and we’ll just remind DD that she needs to pay better attention to these types of things.

As for why she didn’t speak up after earlier tests, she was off to a rough start, so there were a lot of errors and wrong answers and she focused on studying hard to really know the content. It’s only been recently that she’s generally getting answers right but getting docked on how things are presented in her work so it’s catching her attention.

It seems that she is going in the right direction and on the right track!

- college professor

OP here. To clarify on all of the discussion above, the answer box was correctly filled in as x=23, she just finished her “show your work” section with 23. Given there’s an answer box, she didn’t pay as much attention to the presentation of her final answer in her work. Sounds here like that should be deemed incorrect, which is fine and we’ll just remind DD that she needs to pay better attention to these types of things.

As for why she didn’t speak up after earlier tests, she was off to a rough start, so there were a lot of errors and wrong answers and she focused on studying hard to really know the content. It’s only been recently that she’s generally getting answers right but getting docked on how things are presented in her work so it’s catching her attention.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

Why should they get credit? If the work is incorrect, it is incorrect. Do you also argue your child should get partial credit on spelling tests based on only forgetting one letter?

Also, your child is not getting a bad score because they forgot to write "x=" one time. They would need to do it multiple times to get a bad score, and if they are REPEATEDLY making this mistake, they deserve a score that reflects it.

NP OP's daughter got the right answer, or in your analogy, spelled every letter correctly. She just didn't present it as desired. Should a student be docked half credit if they print the spelling word instead of writing it in cursive? Unclear why the teacher wouldn't just circle her answer, noting it should be "x=" but not dock her, at least the first time. She understands the math. This type of rigid assessment is demoralizing.

No. This is not a choice of presentation or analogous to cursive vs script, the child is incorrect and should be judged so by any professional educator worth their license. If the student is solving an equation by isolating a variable, then it is incorrect not to include that variable and equal sign in the solution, as it is an equation and equations, by definition, require a symbol of equality. It's not a matter of presentation or preference, she is turning an equation into an expression by leaving off the variable and the equal sign. The solution is not a single term, it is an equation with an isolated variable. At best, she is careless and does not deserve credit for her mistake, and at worst, she is demonstrating that she does not understand the principles of equality, vocabulary, and mathematical notation fundamental to algebra.

Arguing that there is no difference between x=23 and 23 shows that you yourself lack a solid foundation in pre-algebraic concepts. These are not interchangeable or matters of preference, one is a mathematical term and one is an equation. The mistake is not inconsequential. Mathematics is not a field where "you know what I meant" is a valid answer deserving of credit. You are arguing that a student deserves credit for making a mistake that demonstrates their fundamental lack of understanding and defending that argument with your own lack of understanding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

Why should they get credit? If the work is incorrect, it is incorrect. Do you also argue your child should get partial credit on spelling tests based on only forgetting one letter?

Also, your child is not getting a bad score because they forgot to write "x=" one time. They would need to do it multiple times to get a bad score, and if they are REPEATEDLY making this mistake, they deserve a score that reflects it.

Sorry if a kid takes a math quiz with and did all the math correctly and got the answer correct but did not present it in the format the teacher wanted such as x=4, they should lose a 1/2 a point, not a full point. Everything else they did is correct. That is the benefit of partial credit.

Anonymous wrote:It is harsh but necessary in the long run. The parent should be on the same side as the teacher to help the student see the benefits and then not make the same mistake again. This is a learning process. Middle school is the perfect time to get the process down correctly.

But it isn’t necessary unless you are going into a math field. Most people aren’t sitting around writing x= in their daily jobs. A kid who is making this choice consistently probably won’t go into a math field anyway because they aren’t detail oriented.

It is harsh but necessary in the long run. The parent should be on the same side as the teacher to help the student see the benefits and then not make the same mistake again. This is a learning process. Middle school is the perfect time to get the process down correctly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

Why should they get credit? If the work is incorrect, it is incorrect. Do you also argue your child should get partial credit on spelling tests based on only forgetting one letter?

Also, your child is not getting a bad score because they forgot to write "x=" one time. They would need to do it multiple times to get a bad score, and if they are REPEATEDLY making this mistake, they deserve a score that reflects it.

NP OP's daughter got the right answer, or in your analogy, spelled every letter correctly. She just didn't present it as desired. Should a student be docked half credit if they print the spelling word instead of writing it in cursive? Unclear why the teacher wouldn't just circle her answer, noting it should be "x=" but not dock her, at least the first time. She understands the math. This type of rigid assessment is demoralizing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

The question that needs to be answered is, "What is the value of x?" If they don't end with, "x=something" then they have not answered the question.

+1, it builds laziness in the mathematical process.

Or it builds up in a child the idea that math is not for them and they move on to other careers. To see that as a character flaw is silly. We need all types of people to make the world go.

I posted earlier in the middle of your thread.

In this case, the teacher seems to hold all the cards. You can argue this point for your child, but largely, I've seen these details left entirely up to the teacher.

Other parents might want a hard grader so their kids clean up their procedures, preferring this to happen in middle school rather than high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

Why should they get credit? If the work is incorrect, it is incorrect. Do you also argue your child should get partial credit on spelling tests based on only forgetting one letter?

Also, your child is not getting a bad score because they forgot to write "x=" one time. They would need to do it multiple times to get a bad score, and if they are REPEATEDLY making this mistake, they deserve a score that reflects it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

The question that needs to be answered is, "What is the value of x?" If they don't end with, "x=something" then they have not answered the question.

Yes, but they should not be docked full points. That is what I am trying to say. Then you have kids getting the math right but retaking tests due to labeling. Kids should be docked 1/2 point max if everything else is correct.

Why didn’t they catch on after the first test?

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

+1. This detailed grading is beneficial to your DC in the long run. This is actually much more work on the teacher’s behalf. I applaud the teacher for taking the time to go through each student’s work in this much detail. It would be much easier to just mark the final answer as right or wrong. Saying, x=160 is proper syntax.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

The question that needs to be answered is, "What is the value of x?" If they don't end with, "x=something" then they have not answered the question.

Yes, but they should not be docked full points. That is what I am trying to say. Then you have kids getting the math right but retaking tests due to labeling. Kids should be docked 1/2 point max if everything else is correct.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

The question that needs to be answered is, "What is the value of x?" If they don't end with, "x=something" then they have not answered the question.

+1, it builds laziness in the mathematical process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A large, and often overlooked, part of mathematics is the ability to speak "the language" of mathematics correctly. If your education taught you only to value a correct answer, you probably did not study much advanced math, where the focus is (rightfully) less on a single, ultimate, final number, and more on the actual proof and application of logical processes to come to a conclusion. Mathematical proofs have a grammar and syntax all their own and the study of more advanced mathematics should rightfully focus on a student's ability to use them to communicate the process of finding solutions correctly, as well as expressing those solutions in the correct form.

If mathematics was only concerned with answers, there would be no need to study it at all, since calculators and computers can find solutions much more quickly and accurately. If you want your child to learn mathematics well, then she will need to pay attention to these small errors and correct them, same as she would fix spelling mistakes in Language Arts. You would not argue that spelling and grammar make no difference in writing, as long as you can understand the conclusion, would you? So why are you promoting that idea for mathematics?

Yes. But if the work is correct and all they forgot is x=, why should they be docked? They should not be docked full points and some teachers do this. A kid can get the work correct and the answer correct and can get a bad score.

The question that needs to be answered is, "What is the value of x?" If they don't end with, "x=something" then they have not answered the question.