Anonymous
03/06/2023 11:50
Subject: What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If transcript is basically as good as it can be, the only thing a little soft there is the ACT. 34 would be better if possible.
But even with 34-36, it doesn’t make it that much more likely she can get into “top 5.” But does she want to go to top 5 just because they are top 5 or because she likes those particular schools? I would visit all the top 30 schools and figure out what really appeals and then develop an ED strategy off that. You have two bullets to increase your chances of acceptance - ED1 and ED2. If you go Williams/Amherst ED1 - you will have a lower chance vs the other schools named regardless of your stats. It’s kind of just a lottery. With my DC whose grades were not as strong, we started mid pack ED1 (Colby peer for perspective) and then did ED2 towards bottom of top 30 (Bates peer). Got into Bates peer and VERY pleased because it’s going to be a great fit. While the difficulty of getting into the Bates peer is lower, in my mind the academic quality is really on par with any of them. And the student body is like marginally “worse” by 20 SAT points which is meaningless. All these schools are getting incredibly smart kids - there is not room for all of them at Williams - some portion of the super duper perfect ones get in, then it waterfalls down (not just with rejections but via self selection ED). By the time you get to the bottom of the top 30 list you get a few kids who had Bs on their transcript (oh the humanity!). So I would just think carefully about where she really would be happy and target those two ED- worst case scenario you fall into RD land and could end up at Dickinson or Gettysburg or F&M or Denison- not the end of the world but think through how much you want to risk it going for gold in early decision
NP whose kids targeted nescac schools. This is excellent advice if you are looking at LACs and is essentially what a paid consultant would suggest.
If any paid college consultant gave this advice for a fee, demand a refund.
What is wrong with the advice?
Visit all 30 top ranked schools ?
Admission is just like a lottery ?
No reasonable paid college consultant should make foolish statements like these two examples.
Then equating the educational experience to a large group of LACs because students are within a certain number of SAT points on average isbeyond silly.
And what the heck is a “Bates peer?” I mean, why not just apply to Bates? Or else say the school. So weird.
I didn't feel like revealing the school. But I think you can look at USNWR and see what I mean, the Maine schools reflect the tiers of selectivity. Bowdoin top 10, Colby top 20, Bates top 30. What are you suggesting, I'm some random person who goes around lying about strategies to approach ED at SLACS?
Anonymous
03/06/2023 11:27
Subject: What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If transcript is basically as good as it can be, the only thing a little soft there is the ACT. 34 would be better if possible.
But even with 34-36, it doesn’t make it that much more likely she can get into “top 5.” But does she want to go to top 5 just because they are top 5 or because she likes those particular schools? I would visit all the top 30 schools and figure out what really appeals and then develop an ED strategy off that. You have two bullets to increase your chances of acceptance - ED1 and ED2. If you go Williams/Amherst ED1 - you will have a lower chance vs the other schools named regardless of your stats. It’s kind of just a lottery. With my DC whose grades were not as strong, we started mid pack ED1 (Colby peer for perspective) and then did ED2 towards bottom of top 30 (Bates peer). Got into Bates peer and VERY pleased because it’s going to be a great fit. While the difficulty of getting into the Bates peer is lower, in my mind the academic quality is really on par with any of them. And the student body is like marginally “worse” by 20 SAT points which is meaningless. All these schools are getting incredibly smart kids - there is not room for all of them at Williams - some portion of the super duper perfect ones get in, then it waterfalls down (not just with rejections but via self selection ED). By the time you get to the bottom of the top 30 list you get a few kids who had Bs on their transcript (oh the humanity!). So I would just think carefully about where she really would be happy and target those two ED- worst case scenario you fall into RD land and could end up at Dickinson or Gettysburg or F&M or Denison- not the end of the world but think through how much you want to risk it going for gold in early decision
NP whose kids targeted nescac schools. This is excellent advice if you are looking at LACs and is essentially what a paid consultant would suggest.
If any paid college consultant gave this advice for a fee, demand a refund.
What is wrong with the advice?
Visit all 30 top ranked schools ?
Admission is just like a lottery ?
No reasonable paid college consultant should make foolish statements like these two examples.
Then equating the educational experience to a large group of LACs because students are within a certain number of SAT points on average isbeyond silly.
And what the heck is a “Bates peer?” I mean, why not just apply to Bates? Or else say the school. So weird.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 11:25
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mine had those stats and 1580 SAT and did not get into Williams or Bowdoin.
Look at Middlebury, Hamilton, Carleton, Bates.
The fact that your kid didn't get in doesn't mean another kid won't, even with lower stats. They don't force rank based on stats. They are tiny schools, so most kids get rejected no matter how great they look on paper.
While I agree, I also think that there are folks who overestimate their kids and might be better on being a little sober on their prospects.
Getting into the T3 lacs unhooked is about as difficult as getting into H/Y/P/S, especially for a girl. Unless there is something exceptional on the resume, it is unlikely for all. A 4.0 is no longer exceptional.
That's pretty much my point - a few will slip through probably better to assume that DC is not the applicant with that traction.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 11:25
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mine had those stats and 1580 SAT and did not get into Williams or Bowdoin.
Look at Middlebury, Hamilton, Carleton, Bates.
The fact that your kid didn't get in doesn't mean another kid won't, even with lower stats. They don't force rank based on stats. They are tiny schools, so most kids get rejected no matter how great they look on paper.
While I agree, I also think that there are folks who overestimate their kids and might be better on being a little sober on their prospects.
Getting into the T3 lacs unhooked is about as difficult as getting into H/Y/P/S, especially for a girl. Unless there is something exceptional on the resume, it is unlikely for all. A 4.0 is no longer exceptional.
Absolutely and perhaps T10 is starting to resemble T15 national universities. Hamilton vs Wash U--which is a harder admit now, unhooked? I don't know. Both very hard.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 11:22
Subject: What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If transcript is basically as good as it can be, the only thing a little soft there is the ACT. 34 would be better if possible.
But even with 34-36, it doesn’t make it that much more likely she can get into “top 5.” But does she want to go to top 5 just because they are top 5 or because she likes those particular schools? I would visit all the top 30 schools and figure out what really appeals and then develop an ED strategy off that. You have two bullets to increase your chances of acceptance - ED1 and ED2. If you go Williams/Amherst ED1 - you will have a lower chance vs the other schools named regardless of your stats. It’s kind of just a lottery. With my DC whose grades were not as strong, we started mid pack ED1 (Colby peer for perspective) and then did ED2 towards bottom of top 30 (Bates peer). Got into Bates peer and VERY pleased because it’s going to be a great fit. While the difficulty of getting into the Bates peer is lower, in my mind the academic quality is really on par with any of them. And the student body is like marginally “worse” by 20 SAT points which is meaningless. All these schools are getting incredibly smart kids - there is not room for all of them at Williams - some portion of the super duper perfect ones get in, then it waterfalls down (not just with rejections but via self selection ED). By the time you get to the bottom of the top 30 list you get a few kids who had Bs on their transcript (oh the humanity!). So I would just think carefully about where she really would be happy and target those two ED- worst case scenario you fall into RD land and could end up at Dickinson or Gettysburg or F&M or Denison- not the end of the world but think through how much you want to risk it going for gold in early decision
NP whose kids targeted nescac schools. This is excellent advice if you are looking at LACs and is essentially what a paid consultant would suggest.
If any paid college consultant gave this advice for a fee, demand a refund.
What is wrong with the advice?
Visit all 30 top ranked schools ?
Admission is just like a lottery ?
No reasonable paid college consultant should make foolish statements like these two examples.
Then equating the educational experience to a large group of LACs because students are within a certain number of SAT points on average isbeyond silly.
I amended the visit top 30 comment. Obviously that is ridiculous. Meant to see visit a bunch of them.
Of course it is like a lottery. Acceptance rates are super low at top ranked schools, they have to make judgement calls on highly qualified candidates. They admit these decisions are very difficult and somewhat arbitrary. So yes it's somewhat random. You have to get lucky. No student no matter what the stats are is "likely" to get into Williams or Amherst.
My point was-- in terms of student quality-- you can look at the SAT ranges of the top 30 LACs and notice they aren't that different. This suggests the academic stats of the student bodies are similar, something we also know from firsthand experience. So the point was, put more emphasis on the characteristics of each school--because the students are going to be strong at all of them. My guess is the average top 5 LAC student has the academic stats of a top quartile 25-30 ranked LAC student.
So I stand by my advice.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 11:04
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
Also consider what your child is interested in majoring in, because some schools will have stronger departments than others.
And if your child is interested in a less popular major, that can also help them get admitted if they need to fill that niche. For example, my DC with great stats but no hook got into some elite SLACs as a geology major a couple years ago.
And if your child is interested in a less popular major, that can also help them get admitted if they need to fill that niche. For example, my DC with great stats but no hook got into some elite SLACs as a geology major a couple years ago.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:58
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mine had those stats and 1580 SAT and did not get into Williams or Bowdoin.
Look at Middlebury, Hamilton, Carleton, Bates.
The fact that your kid didn't get in doesn't mean another kid won't, even with lower stats. They don't force rank based on stats. They are tiny schools, so most kids get rejected no matter how great they look on paper.
While I agree, I also think that there are folks who overestimate their kids and might be better on being a little sober on their prospects.
Getting into the T3 lacs unhooked is about as difficult as getting into H/Y/P/S, especially for a girl. Unless there is something exceptional on the resume, it is unlikely for all. A 4.0 is no longer exceptional.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:43
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mine had those stats and 1580 SAT and did not get into Williams or Bowdoin.
Look at Middlebury, Hamilton, Carleton, Bates.
The fact that your kid didn't get in doesn't mean another kid won't, even with lower stats. They don't force rank based on stats. They are tiny schools, so most kids get rejected no matter how great they look on paper.
While I agree, I also think that there are folks who overestimate their kids and might be better on being a little sober on their prospects.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:42
Subject: What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If transcript is basically as good as it can be, the only thing a little soft there is the ACT. 34 would be better if possible.
But even with 34-36, it doesn’t make it that much more likely she can get into “top 5.” But does she want to go to top 5 just because they are top 5 or because she likes those particular schools? I would visit all the top 30 schools and figure out what really appeals and then develop an ED strategy off that. You have two bullets to increase your chances of acceptance - ED1 and ED2. If you go Williams/Amherst ED1 - you will have a lower chance vs the other schools named regardless of your stats. It’s kind of just a lottery. With my DC whose grades were not as strong, we started mid pack ED1 (Colby peer for perspective) and then did ED2 towards bottom of top 30 (Bates peer). Got into Bates peer and VERY pleased because it’s going to be a great fit. While the difficulty of getting into the Bates peer is lower, in my mind the academic quality is really on par with any of them. And the student body is like marginally “worse” by 20 SAT points which is meaningless. All these schools are getting incredibly smart kids - there is not room for all of them at Williams - some portion of the super duper perfect ones get in, then it waterfalls down (not just with rejections but via self selection ED). By the time you get to the bottom of the top 30 list you get a few kids who had Bs on their transcript (oh the humanity!). So I would just think carefully about where she really would be happy and target those two ED- worst case scenario you fall into RD land and could end up at Dickinson or Gettysburg or F&M or Denison- not the end of the world but think through how much you want to risk it going for gold in early decision
NP whose kids targeted nescac schools. This is excellent advice if you are looking at LACs and is essentially what a paid consultant would suggest.
If any paid college consultant gave this advice for a fee, demand a refund.
Why? I'm not a college consultant, but had two DCs go through the last two cycles and know their stories as well as many of their friends. This advice here seems fairly sound if the goal is to get in to a strong school in ED1 based on kid's stats, etc. DCs' friends who didn't seem to fare well were the ones who probably shot for gold in ED1, slightly tarnished gold in ED2, then in free fall in RD. I think coming out of that fall can be even harder for girls as the ratios do not favor them.
Some foks are fine rolling the dice, believe they will get a 2 or 12, and will be happy with their likelies if they are not lucky. But that can also be risky if the applicant overestimated on their likelies, which might have been Hamilton in years past but not in the last few cycles.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:38
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:"It's kind of just a lottery."
Did you actually pay someone for this type of advice ?
It's true whether you pay to hear it or not.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:37
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Mine had those stats and 1580 SAT and did not get into Williams or Bowdoin.
Look at Middlebury, Hamilton, Carleton, Bates.
The fact that your kid didn't get in doesn't mean another kid won't, even with lower stats. They don't force rank based on stats. They are tiny schools, so most kids get rejected no matter how great they look on paper.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:29
Subject: Re:What level LAC can student with
"It's kind of just a lottery."
Did you actually pay someone for this type of advice ?
Did you actually pay someone for this type of advice ?
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:27
Subject: What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If transcript is basically as good as it can be, the only thing a little soft there is the ACT. 34 would be better if possible.
But even with 34-36, it doesn’t make it that much more likely she can get into “top 5.” But does she want to go to top 5 just because they are top 5 or because she likes those particular schools? I would visit all the top 30 schools and figure out what really appeals and then develop an ED strategy off that. You have two bullets to increase your chances of acceptance - ED1 and ED2. If you go Williams/Amherst ED1 - you will have a lower chance vs the other schools named regardless of your stats. It’s kind of just a lottery. With my DC whose grades were not as strong, we started mid pack ED1 (Colby peer for perspective) and then did ED2 towards bottom of top 30 (Bates peer). Got into Bates peer and VERY pleased because it’s going to be a great fit. While the difficulty of getting into the Bates peer is lower, in my mind the academic quality is really on par with any of them. And the student body is like marginally “worse” by 20 SAT points which is meaningless. All these schools are getting incredibly smart kids - there is not room for all of them at Williams - some portion of the super duper perfect ones get in, then it waterfalls down (not just with rejections but via self selection ED). By the time you get to the bottom of the top 30 list you get a few kids who had Bs on their transcript (oh the humanity!). So I would just think carefully about where she really would be happy and target those two ED- worst case scenario you fall into RD land and could end up at Dickinson or Gettysburg or F&M or Denison- not the end of the world but think through how much you want to risk it going for gold in early decision
NP whose kids targeted nescac schools. This is excellent advice if you are looking at LACs and is essentially what a paid consultant would suggest.
If any paid college consultant gave this advice for a fee, demand a refund.
What is wrong with the advice?
Visit all 30 top ranked schools ?
Admission is just like a lottery ?
No reasonable paid college consultant should make foolish statements like these two examples.
Then equating the educational experience to a large group of LACs because students are within a certain number of SAT points on average isbeyond silly.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:19
Subject: What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If transcript is basically as good as it can be, the only thing a little soft there is the ACT. 34 would be better if possible.
But even with 34-36, it doesn’t make it that much more likely she can get into “top 5.” But does she want to go to top 5 just because they are top 5 or because she likes those particular schools? I would visit all the top 30 schools and figure out what really appeals and then develop an ED strategy off that. You have two bullets to increase your chances of acceptance - ED1 and ED2. If you go Williams/Amherst ED1 - you will have a lower chance vs the other schools named regardless of your stats. It’s kind of just a lottery. With my DC whose grades were not as strong, we started mid pack ED1 (Colby peer for perspective) and then did ED2 towards bottom of top 30 (Bates peer). Got into Bates peer and VERY pleased because it’s going to be a great fit. While the difficulty of getting into the Bates peer is lower, in my mind the academic quality is really on par with any of them. And the student body is like marginally “worse” by 20 SAT points which is meaningless. All these schools are getting incredibly smart kids - there is not room for all of them at Williams - some portion of the super duper perfect ones get in, then it waterfalls down (not just with rejections but via self selection ED). By the time you get to the bottom of the top 30 list you get a few kids who had Bs on their transcript (oh the humanity!). So I would just think carefully about where she really would be happy and target those two ED- worst case scenario you fall into RD land and could end up at Dickinson or Gettysburg or F&M or Denison- not the end of the world but think through how much you want to risk it going for gold in early decision
Didn’t mean to say visit all 30 schools. Visit the ones you think are interesting and also check out easier admits (30-50) as likelies, where btw merit aid will kick in and it will be sizable
This is an important update. Do not visit all top 30 ranked LACs for a single student. Would be a tremendous waste of time & money.
Anonymous
03/06/2023 10:15
Subject: What level LAC can student with
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If transcript is basically as good as it can be, the only thing a little soft there is the ACT. 34 would be better if possible.
But even with 34-36, it doesn’t make it that much more likely she can get into “top 5.” But does she want to go to top 5 just because they are top 5 or because she likes those particular schools? I would visit all the top 30 schools and figure out what really appeals and then develop an ED strategy off that. You have two bullets to increase your chances of acceptance - ED1 and ED2. If you go Williams/Amherst ED1 - you will have a lower chance vs the other schools named regardless of your stats. It’s kind of just a lottery. With my DC whose grades were not as strong, we started mid pack ED1 (Colby peer for perspective) and then did ED2 towards bottom of top 30 (Bates peer). Got into Bates peer and VERY pleased because it’s going to be a great fit. While the difficulty of getting into the Bates peer is lower, in my mind the academic quality is really on par with any of them. And the student body is like marginally “worse” by 20 SAT points which is meaningless. All these schools are getting incredibly smart kids - there is not room for all of them at Williams - some portion of the super duper perfect ones get in, then it waterfalls down (not just with rejections but via self selection ED). By the time you get to the bottom of the top 30 list you get a few kids who had Bs on their transcript (oh the humanity!). So I would just think carefully about where she really would be happy and target those two ED- worst case scenario you fall into RD land and could end up at Dickinson or Gettysburg or F&M or Denison- not the end of the world but think through how much you want to risk it going for gold in early decision
NP whose kids targeted nescac schools. This is excellent advice if you are looking at LACs and is essentially what a paid consultant would suggest.
If any paid college consultant gave this advice for a fee, demand a refund.
What is wrong with the advice?