I am the Payne parent who posted above, and as of last week even Charles Allen had not heard about it until I reached out to him, so I don't think DCPS has really communicated much about it yet. This whole issue will get talked about during the boundary review committee that starts this month, and will continue to meet throughout the year. The boundary review will look at boundaries, feeder schools, equity and capacity topics across the city, so there is a good chance that there may be some shifts in boundary/enrollment anyway. The people forming the committee are aware of the Tyler shift in programming so it will be a topic of discussion for sure. Payne just finished our renovation in 2015, so a goal would be not to need to shift into trailers, etc. if there is a big shift in enrollment.

https://ggwash.org/view/88546/dcs-upcoming-school-boundary-review-is-a-chance-to-advance-equity-advocates-say

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means Payne will likely get an influx of lower SES families because of the demographics of who wants dual language instruction.

That is definitely not what it means.

1) Only the kids living IB for Tyler will have rights to Payne. That's about half the kids, I would guess. Kids attending Tyler from OOB would not get rights to Payne. So that's like 12 kids per class.
2) Some of those kids might stick with Tyler, so we're down to like 9 or 10 per class.
3) Not all of the kids getting rights to Payne will actually attend Payne. So there might be like 6 or 7 per class that actually do switch to Payne.
4) Payne currently takes OOB kids for elementary grades. The amount varies by year and by grade but 5-10 offers is typical. So kids IB for Tyler would get those spots instead, and OOB kids who try to lottery into Payne won't get in if there isn't room.
5) Who do you think is lotterying into Payne for elementary? It's lower SES families, for sure. So what difference does it make?

It is absolutely what it means. Potomac Gardens is zoned for Tyler and will now be functionally zoned for Payne. Tyler parents are extremely aware that this is what is about to happen, but I don't think anyone has fully clued in Payne parents.

With which of my points do you disagree, specifically?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means Payne will likely get an influx of lower SES families because of the demographics of who wants dual language instruction.

That is definitely not what it means.

1) Only the kids living IB for Tyler will have rights to Payne. That's about half the kids, I would guess. Kids attending Tyler from OOB would not get rights to Payne. So that's like 12 kids per class.
2) Some of those kids might stick with Tyler, so we're down to like 9 or 10 per class.
3) Not all of the kids getting rights to Payne will actually attend Payne. So there might be like 6 or 7 per class that actually do switch to Payne.
4) Payne currently takes OOB kids for elementary grades. The amount varies by year and by grade but 5-10 offers is typical. So kids IB for Tyler would get those spots instead, and OOB kids who try to lottery into Payne won't get in if there isn't room.
5) Who do you think is lotterying into Payne for elementary? It's lower SES families, for sure. So what difference does it make?

It is absolutely what it means. Potomac Gardens is zoned for Tyler and will now be functionally zoned for Payne. Tyler parents are extremely aware that this is what is about to happen, but I don't think anyone has fully clued in Payne parents.

With which of my points do you disagree, specifically?

Here's my prediction: Tyler will be non-T1 within 5 years; Payne, which has been on a sharper trajectory to non-T1, will see that reverse & will still be T1 5 years from now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means Payne will likely get an influx of lower SES families because of the demographics of who wants dual language instruction.

That is definitely not what it means.

1) Only the kids living IB for Tyler will have rights to Payne. That's about half the kids, I would guess. Kids attending Tyler from OOB would not get rights to Payne. So that's like 12 kids per class.
2) Some of those kids might stick with Tyler, so we're down to like 9 or 10 per class.
3) Not all of the kids getting rights to Payne will actually attend Payne. So there might be like 6 or 7 per class that actually do switch to Payne.
4) Payne currently takes OOB kids for elementary grades. The amount varies by year and by grade but 5-10 offers is typical. So kids IB for Tyler would get those spots instead, and OOB kids who try to lottery into Payne won't get in if there isn't room.
5) Who do you think is lotterying into Payne for elementary? It's lower SES families, for sure. So what difference does it make?

It is absolutely what it means. Potomac Gardens is zoned for Tyler and will now be functionally zoned for Payne. Tyler parents are extremely aware that this is what is about to happen, but I don't think anyone has fully clued in Payne parents.

Anonymous wrote:It means Payne will likely get an influx of lower SES families because of the demographics of who wants dual language instruction.

That is definitely not what it means.

1) Only the kids living IB for Tyler will have rights to Payne. That's about half the kids, I would guess. Kids attending Tyler from OOB would not get rights to Payne. So that's like 12 kids per class.
2) Some of those kids might stick with Tyler, so we're down to like 9 or 10 per class.
3) Not all of the kids getting rights to Payne will actually attend Payne. So there might be like 6 or 7 per class that actually do switch to Payne.
4) Payne currently takes OOB kids for elementary grades. The amount varies by year and by grade but 5-10 offers is typical. So kids IB for Tyler would get those spots instead, and OOB kids who try to lottery into Payne won't get in if there isn't room.
5) Who do you think is lotterying into Payne for elementary? It's lower SES families, for sure. So what difference does it make?

It means Payne will likely get an influx of lower SES families because of the demographics of who wants dual language instruction.

right. if its an optional right to instead enroll at payne only for K and up (which I am pretty sure that it is), it will not displace anyone inbounds who would also have the same guaranteed right to attend. it's probably not especially many kids. the number of children who actually live in the tyler boundary is smaller than the size of tyler. a lot of them will presumably go to tyler. payne may start to have fewer true oob spots available in the upper grades.

Payne makes lottery matches and waitlist for proximity and no preference kids in the upper grades normally. They probably have a bunch of kids who are IB for Tyler there already, and Tyler kids would displace kids from other IBs who are currently getting offers at Payne. And if people IB for Tyler don't want to go to Tyler, they'll look at their options and may or may not end up at Payne just because they have IB rights there. So I don't think this is likely to be an issue, yet.

Re: Tyler/Payne - yes, that is what I confirmed as well when I called, and after talking to other parents and watching the Chancellor's oversight hearing. Only difference is that I heard next year both PK3 and PK4 will be full immersion, so the 2024-2025 school year would add Kindergarten as well. So it will be the year after next that things could get tricky. But again, there is a citywide boundary review that will begin this month and work through next year, so I am confident this will get raised through that process so Tyler and Payne aren't caught off guard next winter when lottery opens.

I emailed both Payne and MySchoolDC, and both confirmed that if you are in bounds for Tyler but don't want Spanish immersion, you will be treated as in-bounds for Payne. This is NOT for PK3 and PK4, though -- only for K and up, as those are the compulsory grades. I have no idea functionally how this will work (e.g. how your in-bounds will be "shown" in the lottery if you are in Tyler but want Payne), but they have two years to figure it out.

I am a Payne parent, and first heard about the Payne/Tyler situation on DCUM back in December. After asking parents at both schools, staff at our school, and calling MySchool DC, it was clear there was some sort of transition happening, but nobody seemed to know the details. I emailed Charles Allen, who had not heard of this yet, and he brought it up to the Chancellor during the oversight hearing last week. The chancellor confirmed there was a 'sister school'/'shared boundary' situation, but did not have time to go into detail. I feel like this has not really been thought through yet, and as there will be a broader citywide boundary review this year (https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/school-boundaries/) I imagine it will get talked about a lot more. But PP is right, Payne is not a very large school, with only two classes/grade, and no empty classrooms. I do think next year it is only ECE that is full immersion at Tyler, and as that grade is not mandatory/guaranteed, this sister school boundary situation will not be an issue until the following year at the earliest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but also in-bounds for Maury with no sibling preference. This was our list -- it's in order of true preference, so I realize that some may think we "wasted" CHMS by putting it below Miner but location is important to us. Appreciate any re-ordering suggestions, but we are really hoping to get one of our top 5.

1. School-Within-School
2. Payne Elementary School
3. Tyler Elementary School (Dual Language)
4. AppleTree PCS – Lincoln Park
5. Miner Elementary School
6. Capitol Hill Montessori
7. J.O. Wilson Elementary School
8. Two Rivers PCS at Young Elementary School
9. Two Rivers PCS at 4th Street
10. AppleTree PCS – Oklahoma Ave (Kingman Park/NE)
11. Lee Montessori PCS - East End
12. Burroughs Elementary School

You are getting into Appletree (OK) for darn sure and you are exceedingly likely to match at Miner and JOW, and so nothing below those matters. Based on that your list confuses me. It is too late to do anything about it, but why would you have included schools that are beneath guarantees and omitted Maury as #1? Sure, it is unlikely for non-sibs to get in, but why not at least try? Water under the bridge I guess.

If your #is good enough to get into CHML then it will be good enough to get you into Miner. SWS is a crap shoot. If your # is good you get in. You said commute matters so you might want to explore when JOW's rehab starts. If it is 24-25 your PK4 commute may not be great and that might inform reordering your choices.

My prediction is you end up at either SWS (if you have good luck), Miner/JOW (with lousy luck) and Payne/Tyler (medium luck).

Good luck!

Payne & Tyler Spanish historically require way more than medium luck. Some chance Tyler is different this year with the whole school transitioning to dual language… but if those kids are treated as IB for Payne (this isn’t clear to me for ECE), Payne will be literally impossible.

Can someone explain this Tyle/Payne thing to me? Is Payne now the inbound for the Tyler boundary if they don't want dual language? It doesn't seem like Payne can really handle that many more kids.

Hi all. The non-OP who posted their list here. I copied the wrong list (from drafts in gmail, not the myschooldc account, have no fear) from when my partner was initially insisting that Maury was statistically a wasted space. We did end up putting it number 1 in the end, so our *actual* list is below. We had Burroughs on there because we have friends who live near there and we figured if we got that bad of a number we might as well have friends at the school.

1. Maury Elementary School
2. School-Within-School
3. Payne Elementary School
4. Tyler Elementary School (Dual Language)
5. AppleTree PCS – Lincoln Park
6. Miner Elementary School
7. Capitol Hill Montessori
8. J.O. Wilson Elementary School
9. Two Rivers PCS at Young Elementary School
10. Two Rivers PCS at 4th Street
11. AppleTree PCS – Oklahoma Ave (Kingman Park/NE)
12. Lee Montessori PCS - East End

Anonymous wrote:Hey PP- don’t worry too much about not listing Maury. If you look at the 21-22 lottery results, on match day the 35 kids who got in to prek3 all had siblings attending. There were 60 kids on the waitlist with no sibling, in boundary. So if you had the best lottery number and were ranked #1 of the in boundary kids, on match day, you wouldn’t have gotten in. Now maybe between March and September some inboundary kids without siblings were moved off that list, but I’ll bet it was very very few and you would have had to be top of the waitlist to get those slots. So did it happen and would it happen to you? Maybe but really unlikely. So don’t feel like you’ve missed out by not putting it on your list, it is really really unlikely.

You are not making the point you think you are. What I (and others) have said is that, while unlikely, it is possible that a single or very few non-sib kids could match. And since there are certainties on their list there was room to include Maury. Which should be first just in case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey PP- don’t worry too much about not listing Maury. If you look at the 21-22 lottery results, on match day the 35 kids who got in to prek3 all had siblings attending. There were 60 kids on the waitlist with no sibling, in boundary. So if you had the best lottery number and were ranked #1 of the in boundary kids, on match day, you wouldn’t have gotten in. Now maybe between March and September some inboundary kids without siblings were moved off that list, but I’ll bet it was very very few and you would have had to be top of the waitlist to get those slots. So did it happen and would it happen to you? Maybe but really unlikely. So don’t feel like you’ve missed out by not putting it on your list, it is really really unlikely.

It really varies from year to year based on sibling numbers and is roughly as likely as getting into SWS (which is similarly dependent on sibling numbers). I'm not trying to be mean, but it's a major screw up if it's OP's first choice and there is zero explanation for listing SWS and not Maury.

This. If it’s your actual first choice, you list it. Random things can happen. I’ve seen schools decide in May to add another classroom and suddenly 20 kids get off the waitlist. It just seems crazy not to list your first choice, especially if you have a preference that will jump you higher up the list. I would never write off my chances of getting a spot at a school I loved that was really close, especially if you are including schools like SWS and CHMS, where your odds are also long but you have no preference at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but also in-bounds for Maury with no sibling preference. This was our list -- it's in order of true preference, so I realize that some may think we "wasted" CHMS by putting it below Miner but location is important to us. Appreciate any re-ordering suggestions, but we are really hoping to get one of our top 5.

1. School-Within-School
2. Payne Elementary School
3. Tyler Elementary School (Dual Language)
4. AppleTree PCS – Lincoln Park
5. Miner Elementary School
6. Capitol Hill Montessori
7. J.O. Wilson Elementary School
8. Two Rivers PCS at Young Elementary School
9. Two Rivers PCS at 4th Street
10. AppleTree PCS – Oklahoma Ave (Kingman Park/NE)
11. Lee Montessori PCS - East End
12. Burroughs Elementary School

You are getting into Appletree (OK) for darn sure and you are exceedingly likely to match at Miner and JOW, and so nothing below those matters. Based on that your list confuses me. It is too late to do anything about it, but why would you have included schools that are beneath guarantees and omitted Maury as #1? Sure, it is unlikely for non-sibs to get in, but why not at least try? Water under the bridge I guess.

If your #is good enough to get into CHML then it will be good enough to get you into Miner. SWS is a crap shoot. If your # is good you get in. You said commute matters so you might want to explore when JOW's rehab starts. If it is 24-25 your PK4 commute may not be great and that might inform reordering your choices.

My prediction is you end up at either SWS (if you have good luck), Miner/JOW (with lousy luck) and Payne/Tyler (medium luck).

Good luck!

Payne & Tyler Spanish historically require way more than medium luck. Some chance Tyler is different this year with the whole school transitioning to dual language… but if those kids are treated as IB for Payne (this isn’t clear to me for ECE), Payne will be literally impossible.

Can someone explain this Tyle/Payne thing to me? Is Payne now the inbound for the Tyler boundary if they don't want dual language? It doesn't seem like Payne can really handle that many more kids.