Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

Did you even read the article? This is in reference to *hiring* practices. They can no longer demand faculty swear allegiance to some kind of "DEI" oath. It has nothing to do with admissions.

The University of North Carolina (UNC) System announced plans to ditch diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) as well as compelled speech requirements from hiring decisions following a board of governors meeting on Thursday.

The System, which includes 17 public universities serving nearly a quarter of a million students, will no longer “solicit nor require an employee or applicant for academic admission or employment to affirmatively ascribe to or opine about beliefs, affiliations, ideals, or principles regarding matters of contemporary political debate or social action as a condition to admission, employment, or professional advancement,” the resolution reads.

The statement added that hiring practices will further prohibit “statements of commitment to particular views on matters of contemporary political debate or social action contained on applications or qualifications for admission or employment included as criteria for analysis of an employee’s career progression.”

Anonymous wrote:Good.

+1
High time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

Actually, I’m quite sure that affirmative action based on SES will be continue to completely legal. Unfortunately for the DEI folks, when they examine the pool of poor but smart kids, they find that 70% of them are rural whites. Helping poor white people is anathema to the majority of progressives, thus the aversion to going with an SES based affirmative action scheme.

Have you sent a kid to college yet? We didn’t submit a FAFSA at all because we weren’t going to qualify and after applications were in several top colleges sent my white male information about registering for URM/1sr Gen/ Low SES spend a night on campus programs, fee waivers etc. nobody blinks at doing this for athletes. But now at UNC, it’s illegal to have these programs, even if there is no advantage based on race or SES in admissions decisions. Your kid gets tens of thousands spent of private school tuition and private college counseling and tutoring and coaching. You really think a kid whose parents have never attended college is getting a special advantage when they do a DEI program at a college?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

What about the smart middle class kids? Our kids are getting squeezed to death between legacies, sports recruits and first gen!

That’s the problem. There are very few true MC kids left. Wealth is rapidlY concentrating up or down. And top universities are going tuition free for kids whose families make Sox figures or less. The true MC qualifies for decent need based aid and for outreach programs if their parents didn’t attend college and were in manufacturing, trades etc.

The problem is everyone on DCUM making $250k and calling themselves MC. You aren’t. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

What about the smart middle class kids? Our kids are getting squeezed to death between legacies, sports recruits and first gen!

I mean, the middle class is what caused the college debacle to begin with. Reap what you sow.

I guess you believe that people getting ideas above their station was a temporary blip and now we can return to the natural order of things where education is based on the ability to pay rather than merit

“Middle class” on DCUM (people making $200k) is not middle class. Quit the victim complex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

What about the smart middle class kids? Our kids are getting squeezed to death between legacies, sports recruits and first gen!

I mean, the middle class is what caused the college debacle to begin with. Reap what you sow.

I guess you believe that people getting ideas above their station was a temporary blip and now we can return to the natural order of things where education is based on the ability to pay rather than merit

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did signing this statement actually mean anything? De facto?

Usually in faculty hiring, when you are asked to submit a diversity statement, it’s basically an essay in which you talk about how you have encountered students who are diverse, how you think about diversity or n preparing your syllabi, and how your own work in research intersects with diversity issues. It’s not simply a paper that you sign.

the purpose in having someone write an essay is that it helps the committee to know that they have thought about these issues, and that they have a philosophy about diversity. The only people who really struggle with it are people who kind of refuse to see the diversity of their students. I once worked with an older white man who loved to use football analogies in teacher my. all of his icebreakers in class were asking people to name their favorite teams etc. a lot of recent immigrants, some women, and a lot of neurodiverse people really are not interested in football, and so his teaching showed a sort of cluelessness to those issues. most people, however, are pretty aware of diversity and have thought about it and really don’t struggle to write these statements

This.

They are used as a method to to gauge if a teacher/professor has thought about diversity and their teaching approach to a diverse student body.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

What about the smart middle class kids? Our kids are getting squeezed to death between legacies, sports recruits and first gen!

I mean, the middle class is what caused the college debacle to begin with. Reap what you sow.

Anonymous wrote:This is click bait. Did OP actually read about the requirements? Each application for admissions and employment for the med school had exhaustive requirements for answering DEI questions as well it being required on their CV. These are not politically neutral positions.

This push back was started by Kenny Xu, who started the push back against Harvard for discriminating against Asians. He is also the spokesperson of Color Me United, whose leadership is quite diverse. So stop making UNC look conservative and blaming it on your cancel culture.

Examples: "We envision a school that reflects, in all its dimensions, the population it serves. Using the field below, please provide a diversity statement that outlines examples of your commitment to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, as well as how you will contribute to an inclusive environment at the UNC Eshelman School of Pharmacy."

"The Department of Health Policy and Management at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is committed to advancing diversity, equity, and inclusion in all areas of faculty effort including research, teaching and service. Candidates should address at least one of these areas in the Diversity Statement, describing past experiences, current interests or activities, and/or future goals to promote a climate that values diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. Stronger statements will include a range of examples of how you have incorporated equity into your research, teaching and/or service."

The moeveme

So.. kids who are in college have to respond to this essay when they apply to med school? How many kids in college have the time to deal with this BS in real life? The vast majority of them will handle DEI issues (maybe not the right phrasing here) as they arise but sure don't have the time to seek out such experiences, because, you know..college, studies, maintain gpa, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the case which the discrimination case against asians and white people which Supreme court is ruling on related to UNC and Harvard? If so, wouldn't this decision would be in line with the idea that no race should be preferred over another, correct?

They are likely getting ready for the ruling which could be no consideration of race at all in anything.

This is click bait. Did OP actually read about the requirements? Each application for admissions and employment for the med school had exhaustive requirements for answering DEI questions as well it being required on their CV. These are not politically neutral positions.

This push back was started by Kenny Xu, who started the push back against Harvard for discriminating against Asians. He is also the spokesperson of Color Me United, whose leadership is quite diverse. So stop making UNC look conservative and blaming it on your cancel culture.

Examples: "We envision a school that reflects, in all its dimensions, the population it serves. Using the field below, please provide a diversity statement that outlines examples of your commitment to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, as well as how you will contribute to an inclusive environment at the UNC Eshelman School of Pharmacy."

"The Department of Health Policy and Management at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is committed to advancing diversity, equity, and inclusion in all areas of faculty effort including research, teaching and service. Candidates should address at least one of these areas in the Diversity Statement, describing past experiences, current interests or activities, and/or future goals to promote a climate that values diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. Stronger statements will include a range of examples of how you have incorporated equity into your research, teaching and/or service."

The moeveme

Anonymous wrote:Did signing this statement actually mean anything? De facto?

Usually in faculty hiring, when you are asked to submit a diversity statement, it’s basically an essay in which you talk about how you have encountered students who are diverse, how you think about diversity or n preparing your syllabi, and how your own work in research intersects with diversity issues. It’s not simply a paper that you sign.

the purpose in having someone write an essay is that it helps the committee to know that they have thought about these issues, and that they have a philosophy about diversity. The only people who really struggle with it are people who kind of refuse to see the diversity of their students. I once worked with an older white man who loved to use football analogies in teacher my. all of his icebreakers in class were asking people to name their favorite teams etc. a lot of recent immigrants, some women, and a lot of neurodiverse people really are not interested in football, and so his teaching showed a sort of cluelessness to those issues. most people, however, are pretty aware of diversity and have thought about it and really don’t struggle to write these statements

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

Actually, I’m quite sure that affirmative action based on SES will be continue to completely legal. Unfortunately for the DEI folks, when they examine the pool of poor but smart kids, they find that 70% of them are rural whites. Helping poor white people is anathema to the majority of progressives, thus the aversion to going with an SES based affirmative action scheme.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/203207/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us-by-ethnic-group/

Anonymous wrote:In 2023, DEI is much less about race or national origin and more about removing barriers to college for low SES students. So colleges do special out reach and waive fees for FARMs and first Gen kids. They put them in special mentor groups because they are the most likely to drop out.

I happen to think eliminating the ability of low SES kids to access college education in a very complex admission and financial aid environment is a bad thing. Wealth inequality is the highest it’s even been in the US and growing. Ask 1789 France what happens when you have a permanent underclass with no real social mobility and a let them eat cake elite class. Ask the Russians in 1918. It never ends well.

And it’s kid of gross to eliminate DEI for poor kid whose parents can’t help but keep the legacy and sports set asides for almost exclusively UMC kids (except football and some basketball).

Actually, I’m quite sure that affirmative action based on SES will be continue to completely legal. Unfortunately for the DEI folks, when they examine the pool of poor but smart kids, they find that 70% of them are rural whites. Helping poor white people is anathema to the majority of progressives, thus the aversion to going with an SES based affirmative action scheme.

Anonymous wrote:Good, stop discriminating.

Having DEI is a necessary and acceptable form of discrimination. It’s kind of like when you choose brown bread over white bread with dinner.