Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I notice that articles like these always frame the issue as some deficiency or failing with men, whereas when a demographic trend is unfavorable for women it is usually externalized, attributed to some outside force or...blamed on men again.

We need to start being honest about how held-preferences, individual action and societal forces are combining to foment these trends.

It's easy to just resort to bludgeoning men, but I don't think it's the answer long term.

I do think the answer is with men. My dh was raised by his parents to be a full partner: work, cook, clean, love children, remember holidays. So many men just weren't. They basically think all they need to do is get a job. Showing up doesn't count anymore for men. Women do it all and men need to step up. I'm raising my sons to do better.

I have both sons and daughters and I also think schools play a role. They are geared towards girls who sit better and don't need as much activity.

Schools have more movement, moving around, and movement breaks than they did when we were in school. I think the problem is the opposite, that schools expect a lot from girls but have low expectations of boys and low requirements. And therefore low results.

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting women and encouraging them to be leaders. However, I hate what we are doing in society today, forgetting about the boys and younger men sometimes. The old white guys seem to women out in the old generation. But they are different than the young males who are struggling right now.

In my company (in a field that was formerly considered male dominant), 65% of the leadership is women. We were told specifically to promote women into these positions, and once the women are in they continue to push other women into leadership positions. It's like the good old boys network except the other direction.

You think this is a bad thing?

Anonymous wrote:I notice that articles like these always frame the issue as some deficiency or failing with men, whereas when a demographic trend is unfavorable for women it is usually externalized, attributed to some outside force or...blamed on men again.

We need to start being honest about how held-preferences, individual action and societal forces are combining to foment these trends.

It's easy to just resort to bludgeoning men, but I don't think it's the answer long term.

I do think the answer is with men. My dh was raised by his parents to be a full partner: work, cook, clean, love children, remember holidays. So many men just weren't. They basically think all they need to do is get a job. Showing up doesn't count anymore for men. Women do it all and men need to step up. I'm raising my sons to do better.

I have both sons and daughters and I also think schools play a role. They are geared towards girls who sit better and don't need as much activity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering most college students are women and most college drop outs are men, I don't really expect to see this reverse any time soon. Most of the jobs that men fell back to are becoming automated so that they need fewer humans doing the same amount of work.

At this point, I think it might be prudent to figure out a solution to these problems. Maybe start all boys in Kindergarten at 6 or 7 instead of 5 or 6. Then by the time they reach college they can actually be mature enough to complete it.

For years, posters have pointed to the college stats as an indicator of a huge problem, societally and for each DCUM family's DS and DD. And for years, other posters have dismissed any concern by pointing to CEOs and the president.

This is a huge issue and yours is the first proposal I've seen to address it. I'm not sure if I agree with your proposal but it's an interesting idea and is worth considering.

Males and females are different. Males need to wait to go to school because they develop later and slower. Girls mature, start, and finish puberty faster. I don't think having a society with a large number of listless young men unable to find employment or partners is healthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought two-thirds of teenage girls were suicidal? I wonder if maybe these phenomena the press keeps reporting are overblown or inaccurate.

One-third of teen girls are depressed and have contemplated suicide.

As of 2022, Pew Research Center found, 30 percent of U.S. adults are neither married, living with a partner nor engaged in a committed relationship. Nearly half of all young adults are single: 34 percent of women, and a whopping 63 percent of men.

Lol.

Survey: Are you in a relationship?

Her: Of course! He isn’t as attentive as he needs to be, and he forgot Valentine’s Day, and he doesn’t meet all of my needs, but we’re working through it.

Him: Nah.

It’s this. Different answers to “are you in a committed relationship?”.

You realize this overlaps, at least somewhat, with women "dating" the same guys right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought two-thirds of teenage girls were suicidal? I wonder if maybe these phenomena the press keeps reporting are overblown or inaccurate.

One-third of teen girls are depressed and have contemplated suicide.

As of 2022, Pew Research Center found, 30 percent of U.S. adults are neither married, living with a partner nor engaged in a committed relationship. Nearly half of all young adults are single: 34 percent of women, and a whopping 63 percent of men.

Lol.

Survey: Are you in a relationship?

Her: Of course! He isn’t as attentive as he needs to be, and he forgot Valentine’s Day, and he doesn’t meet all of my needs, but we’re working through it.

Him: Nah.

It’s this. Different answers to “are you in a committed relationship?”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering most college students are women and most college drop outs are men, I don't really expect to see this reverse any time soon. Most of the jobs that men fell back to are becoming automated so that they need fewer humans doing the same amount of work.

At this point, I think it might be prudent to figure out a solution to these problems. Maybe start all boys in Kindergarten at 6 or 7 instead of 5 or 6. Then by the time they reach college they can actually be mature enough to complete it.

For years, posters have pointed to the college stats as an indicator of a huge problem, societally and for each DCUM family's DS and DD. And for years, other posters have dismissed any concern by pointing to CEOs and the president.

This is a huge issue and yours is the first proposal I've seen to address it. I'm not sure if I agree with your proposal but it's an interesting idea and is worth considering.

Apex fallacy at its finest. It's a huge problem.

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

“Young men ‘are watching a lot of social media, they’re watching a lot of porn, and I think they’re getting a lot of their needs met without having to go out. And I think that’s starting to be a habit.’”

Ya think? The middle school kids waiting for the bus outside my house are all boys. They stand there staring at their phones. Hours later, I see them get off the bus still staring at their phones. I imagine they go home and keep staring or maybe start playing video games because homework doesn’t happen anymore. Do parents really think these kids are going to magically turn into socially adjusted adults when they’ve spent the entirety of their teenage years interacting primarily with screens?

+1 boys especially need to interact more because they aren't that great at it in the first place. I really wish the schools would implement a no phone policy during school hours like some schools have done. One Principal noted how most kids during lunch were just staring at the phone and not interacting. So, he implemented a no phone policy. He then saw how kids would actually sit around during lunch and talk to each other.

I used to scoff at those social skill classes, but for boys, maybe it's not such a bad idea.

I have a 17 yr old DS, who was a bit socially awkward and loved computer games in ES/MS. We told DS to socialize more, and restricted computer gaming when DS was younger. Turns out, he actually would prefer socializing than playing on his computer, but so many boys didn't want to get together and socialize. He has a GF now and told me that so many boys are so awkward and don't know how to talk to girls.

It starts young. Get your DS off their computers. And actually, in HS and college, if they want to meet a girl, tell them to join the drama club.

Anonymous wrote:Considering most college students are women and most college drop outs are men, I don't really expect to see this reverse any time soon. Most of the jobs that men fell back to are becoming automated so that they need fewer humans doing the same amount of work.

At this point, I think it might be prudent to figure out a solution to these problems. Maybe start all boys in Kindergarten at 6 or 7 instead of 5 or 6. Then by the time they reach college they can actually be mature enough to complete it.

For years, posters have pointed to the college stats as an indicator of a huge problem, societally and for each DCUM family's DS and DD. And for years, other posters have dismissed any concern by pointing to CEOs and the president.

This is a huge issue and yours is the first proposal I've seen to address it. I'm not sure if I agree with your proposal but it's an interesting idea and is worth considering.

Anonymous wrote:Considering most college students are women and most college drop outs are men, I don't really expect to see this reverse any time soon. Most of the jobs that men fell back to are becoming automated so that they need fewer humans doing the same amount of work.

At this point, I think it might be prudent to figure out a solution to these problems. Maybe start all boys in Kindergarten at 6 or 7 instead of 5 or 6. Then by the time they reach college they can actually be mature enough to complete it.

Whenever a demographic trend favors women it's because of their own virtue and competence. Whenever it favors men it's "systemic".

We need to start getting way more nuanced about these things. This reductive framing isn't going to cut it.

With liberation comes natural change.

Considering most college students are women and most college drop outs are men, I don't really expect to see this reverse any time soon. Most of the jobs that men fell back to are becoming automated so that they need fewer humans doing the same amount of work.

At this point, I think it might be prudent to figure out a solution to these problems. Maybe start all boys in Kindergarten at 6 or 7 instead of 5 or 6. Then by the time they reach college they can actually be mature enough to complete it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

“Young men ‘are watching a lot of social media, they’re watching a lot of porn, and I think they’re getting a lot of their needs met without having to go out. And I think that’s starting to be a habit.’”

Ya think? The middle school kids waiting for the bus outside my house are all boys. They stand there staring at their phones. Hours later, I see them get off the bus still staring at their phones. I imagine they go home and keep staring or maybe start playing video games because homework doesn’t happen anymore. Do parents really think these kids are going to magically turn into socially adjusted adults when they’ve spent the entirety of their teenage years interacting primarily with screens?

Yes, it’s only teen *boys* that spend a lot of time on their phones.

No, it’s clearly everyone, but the manifestations look different depending on who we’re talking about.

Anonymous wrote:I notice that articles like these always frame the issue as some deficiency or failing with men, whereas when a demographic trend is unfavorable for women it is usually externalized, attributed to some outside force or...blamed on men again.

We need to start being honest about how held-preferences, individual action and societal forces are combining to foment these trends.

It's easy to just resort to bludgeoning men, but I don't think it's the answer long term.

Agreed. Whatever is going on with men is going to be a real problem moving forward. It will need to be addressed constructively. Given that men are 49% of the US population, we do need them.

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

“Young men ‘are watching a lot of social media, they’re watching a lot of porn, and I think they’re getting a lot of their needs met without having to go out. And I think that’s starting to be a habit.’”

Ya think? The middle school kids waiting for the bus outside my house are all boys. They stand there staring at their phones. Hours later, I see them get off the bus still staring at their phones. I imagine they go home and keep staring or maybe start playing video games because homework doesn’t happen anymore. Do parents really think these kids are going to magically turn into socially adjusted adults when they’ve spent the entirety of their teenage years interacting primarily with screens?

Yes, it’s only teen *boys* that spend a lot of time on their phones.