Anonymous wrote:This will get a bunch of “oh no, you should never do that!!” but we spanked for direct defiance like this.

+ 1

But how many parents will use spanking for the right reasons? Most of the time the kids are acting out because they are neglected, bored, not heard, not getting attention. Parents should not be spanking because they have not met the needs of the kid (kid is tired, sleepy, hungry) or because the parents themselves are stressed or angry.

My children have been spanked after being told very clearly, more than once, to not do something because of xyz or else they will be spanked. They pushed the boundaries and then they were spanked. I have spanked my kids probably from the age of 7 to 12 a total of six times. It was very clear why they were being spanked. And I have not had to discipline me kids at all since then. They are in their 20s.

4 is too small to be spanked IMHO. The behavior is very attention seeking and generally the kid sounds unhappy. OP does not seem to know why her kid is behaving in this fashion? I think the kid wants the parents around him and probably the parents are too busy with their work. I am guessing that the kid is unhappy with being left at daycare or with a nanny. Yes, parenting is hard.

OP, please read Beyond Time Out by Beth Grosshans. This book was seriously a game-changer for us and totally opened our eyes to how we were enabling and contributing to our 3 yo's out of control behavior. You don't need a few tips or tricks here and there, or another reward chart -- you need to understand how the dynamic in your family is contributing to these power struggles and how to repair these dynamics in a systemic , consistent way. Others have also recommended 123 Magic - I haven't read it, but I have a good friend who says it really helped them. Bottom line, good parenting doesn't just happen by itself! Take the time to read, understand what your kid is really looking for and asking for in these situations, and learn how to respond consistently and appropriately. Yelling doesn't work, as I'm sure you've noticed, and makes everyone feel terrible. Time outs can work but you have to know how to do them correctly - the book i mentioned really helps with that as well.

I also can't stress enough how important it is to get this figured out sooner rather than later. One of my best friends had a dynamic like this with one of her kids and the boy is now 7 and he still has tantrums like a 3 year old because they never addressed his behavior beyond yelling and some reward charts which never worked. It actually has impacted how much we hang out because I find it so exhausting to be around her son and I can't even imagine what it must be like in her house 24/7. Don't go down that road -- address it now!

This will get a bunch of “oh no, you should never do that!!” but we spanked for direct defiance like this.

Anonymous wrote:Just teach good manners. The basics are so important.
Give attention and praise good behavior. Thank you Raya for sitting for dinner. If the child is angry abd screaming let him. Tell him when he's ready abd done he can come play.

He might have odd. Defiant disorder. If you think it's not normal then check with a specialist

Her kid doesn't have ODD! Her kid is fine at school. He's not being disciplined at home because he knows he can get away with it. OP please start setting some limits and enforcing them. This is how you end up with the type of young men our country is struggling with right now.

Just teach good manners. The basics are so important.
Give attention and praise good behavior. Thank you Raya for sitting for dinner. If the child is angry abd screaming let him. Tell him when he's ready abd done he can come play.

He might have odd. Defiant disorder. If you think it's not normal then check with a specialist

Anonymous wrote:Op again. So give me an example. If he hits me or kicks me do I give him a time out? (For us time out means going in your room) sometimes he doesn’t care ither times he hangs on the door. Feel like we’ve tried this so many times and the behavior didn’t change. What is something I do in the moment?

Going to your room can be a tactic/consequence (Your attitude is unacceptable - go in your room until you’re ready to be around people again.), but it’s not a time out. A time out would be to Sit/stand in a specific (boring) spot and do nothing for X minutes (usually a minute for every year of age - in his case 4 minutes).

In the case of him hitting or kicking you, you should first of all follow through on whatever caused him to hit or kick you (taking away the cheese, getting dressed, etc). He doesn’t get his way because he was violent.

Then tell him how because he has hurt you, you are less inclined to do X (play game, take him on outing, snuggle up and watch TV, etc.) and he will be losing that privilege for X duration. Give him a time out (as described above) to reflect on how hurting people won’t get him his way, will in fact cost him something, and that when he hurts people they won’t want to be around him and will certainly be less likely to do him favors. While you’re his parent and will always love him and give him another chance, other people won’t. How would he feel if other people hit and kicked him to get their way?

Stop giving in the second it gets hard. He’s become manipulative and defiant because you’ve permitted him to, and even if he does something bad he still gets away with it without consequences. I guarantee this will only continue and will carry into his behavior outside of your home unless you follow through with consequences for his bad behavior.

Anonymous wrote:Some kids are too smart for sticker charts and too self confident to give a hoot about time outs. Congratulations OP for your child is one of those special, exceedingly self actualiSd kids who is secure in his parents love and will probably easily be elected to positions of power by his peers.

Here is something that has helped me. I realized at that age, the kid wants more power/autonomy/control. Which is great! This we applaud in adults. And also, he is now big enough and strong enough that you have to negotiate. Gone are the days of the roly poly 18 month old you could pick up easily.

So what you can do is give him that power. You say, when will you be ready to get dressed? Now or in five minutes? Negotiate a time, get him to say yes, set a timer, let him know when it’s getting close “two minutes” and then when timer goes off you get dressed. If he hesitates remind him of your deal. Act like you, too, are kind of bummed out about the timer going off but a deal is a deal.

If he doesn’t want to get dressed, ask him what he wants to wear. “What do you want to wear? Show me.” Give choices, ask him to dress himself, treat him like the human being he is.

But even so, getting dressed is tough at that age. I am reminded of a quote from That guy from Fugazi who was asked in an interview, what is the most punk person you know? And he was like “my four year old when they don’t want to get dressed.” Truth.

Thanks. I will do this tomorrow and report back. I would die to see a video of that fugazi quote!

Anonymous wrote:Op again. So give me an example. If he hits me or kicks me do I give him a time out? (For us time out means going in your room) sometimes he doesn’t care ither times he hangs on the door. Feel like we’ve tried this so many times and the behavior didn’t change. What is something I do in the moment?

That's not a time out. Go on youtube and watch supernally.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. We have tried time out. He doesn’t respond to it- doesn’t seem to care. When he took the cheese, he runs away laughing and he’s very fast and I (literally) can’t catch him. I let him pick out his clothes and he still doesn’t get dressed. When I yell at him, or when my husband yells at him, he sort of freezes and ignores us. I feel like he’s so difficult that lately i just relent and let him watch tv. I’m out of things to do. The only thing he consistently does it take his shoes off before coming in the house (a rule) but everything else he ignores. He isn’t motivated by rewards and isn’t deterred by time outs. Sometimes he’s great (mainly when not in the house)

You don’t have to be faster. Just follow him, take the cheese away from him when you get there, and give him a consequence (time out, loss of privilege, etc.). We used to keep a running list on the fridge for DD of privileges lost (no dessert, no choice on TV/movie selection, no TV, no playdates, no time at the park, no playing games together, no specific toy (Barbie, crayons, etc). His world may get pretty bleak for a while, but if you can catch him some time before he gets into trouble and loses a treat, you can give him a treat and explain that you want to give him treats and do fun things with him because you love him and want him to be happy, but that you can’t when he misbehaves.

If he watches TV when you’ve told him not to, turn off the TV, or send/take him to his room, or if necessary unplug the TV.

Picking out his clothes doesn’t seem to be helping, so don’t bother. If you have to manhandle him into clothes, you pick them out. If he wants to wear what he picks out, he needs to dress himself.

Some kids are too smart for sticker charts and too self confident to give a hoot about time outs. Congratulations OP for your child is one of those special, exceedingly self actualiSd kids who is secure in his parents love and will probably easily be elected to positions of power by his peers.

Here is something that has helped me. I realized at that age, the kid wants more power/autonomy/control. Which is great! This we applaud in adults. And also, he is now big enough and strong enough that you have to negotiate. Gone are the days of the roly poly 18 month old you could pick up easily.

So what you can do is give him that power. You say, when will you be ready to get dressed? Now or in five minutes? Negotiate a time, get him to say yes, set a timer, let him know when it’s getting close “two minutes” and then when timer goes off you get dressed. If he hesitates remind him of your deal. Act like you, too, are kind of bummed out about the timer going off but a deal is a deal.

If he doesn’t want to get dressed, ask him what he wants to wear. “What do you want to wear? Show me.” Give choices, ask him to dress himself, treat him like the human being he is.

But even so, getting dressed is tough at that age. I am reminded of a quote from That guy from Fugazi who was asked in an interview, what is the most punk person you know? And he was like “my four year old when they don’t want to get dressed.” Truth.

You mentioned the show Super Nanny, so you know her tactics. You don't need "her" in your house, just some of her ways to discipline and set boundaries.

Is the not wanting to get dressed happening every morning? Is it before breakfast? Is he hungry, tired (not enough sleep?). I agree with the time out chair or nose in the corner. Hitting and/or kicking mom or dad is a major NO and he should always be removed and put in time out.

Op again. So give me an example. If he hits me or kicks me do I give him a time out? (For us time out means going in your room) sometimes he doesn’t care ither times he hangs on the door. Feel like we’ve tried this so many times and the behavior didn’t change. What is something I do in the moment?

Could it be that he’s not ready to get dressed by himself?

If you say no and then he does what he wants, the no IS a joke. You have to back up your nos with negative consequences, because right now he knows they’re meaningless.

You don’t have to choose between positive and negative consequences, use both. You need all the tools in your toolbox. I agree with PP that the book 1 2 3 Magic might be helpful.

Don’t get discouraged if things don’t seem to get better right away. They may even get worse for a while as he tests you. He’s not going to want to suddenly submit to your tules and will test you to see if you really mean it, or if he can still get/do what he wants if he pushes harder. Consistency is key. Don’t ever give in because of bad behavior (although listening to a rational argument and reconsidering if he actually has a valid point is fine - at your discretion).