Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 20:51     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.


+1. You need to call the colleges direct and ask them. If they won’t tell you because they want to use “holistic” methods the. Just go to College Confidential and Reddit. Also google the college’s name admissions requirements foreign/world language language and a lot of information will come up, both from the institution itself but by their counselors like Dean J at UVA. You’ll also pick up information from those entities that run private counseling and use stats as a way to lure you in to hiring them.



Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.


I asked this college admissions counselors this question and you are wrong.


It depends which college admissions counselors you ask . I'm not joking. They aren't gods and they aren't always right and so many different universities have different standards and things they want to see.
Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 20:45     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.




Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.


I asked this college admissions counselors this question and you are wrong.



But the information came from a quick google to find UVA’s foreign language expectations. It quite clearly said it wanted to see four years in a SINGLE language. It also said that two years of high school language was required for the application but that four years was “strongly recommended” and of course Dean J says “most rigorous”, meaning get those AP language courses if you can. My UVA student had four years of high school Spanish, then 2 years of German at UVA. He took an additional class in Spanish during the rising-senior summer to prove his mastery of the language and ability to handle college-level work. The average high school college counselor cannot keep abreast of everything every school wants. You must call the college’s admissions offices. What am I wrong about? Google what I said above
Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 17:11     Subject: Re:Foreign Languages Requirement
I emailed the admission office for Duke and they couldn’t even give me a straight answer. I think for those colleges that aren’t clear in requirements, other factors will come into play as part of the overall application. Colleges like Univ of Delaware that explicitly states their requirements will use this as a weed out tool. FWIW, a friends daughter got into Georgetown with the minimum 2 years high school FL. She did also have a seal of Biliteracy in another not commonly taught language so that probably bumped up her FL cred. Another friends daughter got into Stanford last year with 2 years FL even though they recommend 3 or more in high school. This kid also had a seal of Biliteracy in a different language which may have been enough to satisfy their requirements.
Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 17:09     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.




Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.


I asked this college admissions counselors this question and you are wrong.


It depends which college admissions counselors you ask . I'm not joking. They aren't gods and they aren't always right and so many different universities have different standards and things they want to see.


Clearly every school has different expectations, which is why PP’s definitive statement that HS level FL courses taken in MS do not count is absolutely a wrong statement.
Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 16:32     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.




Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.


I asked this college admissions counselors this question and you are wrong.


It depends which college admissions counselors you ask . I'm not joking. They aren't gods and they aren't always right and so many different universities have different standards and things they want to see.
Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 16:21     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.




Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.


I asked this college admissions counselors this question and you are wrong.
Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 15:15     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.




Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.


This is the strange thing. We have talked to multiple college counselors and they all say that middle school foreign language does count. They still encourage the child to take another 2 years after that which basically means the student would get to level 4. That means 4 years of world language.

Do you have citations somewhere that says middle school foreign languages don't count? From the professionals we talk to, it is different. I am not saying you are wrong, but would be helpful to know where you got your sources from to make this claim.


What I’m wondering is why “four years of foreign language” would mean something different from “four years of math,” a subject in which many kids also earn HS credits in MS. No one seems to ask whether colleges really mean four years of math taken during HS. It’s taken as a given that a kid who takes Alg 1 in 8th grade and completes pre-calc in 11th grade still needs to take a math class in 12th grade, preferably something rigorous (calculus or AP stats).
Anonymous
Post 01/26/2023 14:06     Subject: Re:Foreign Languages Requirement
FWIW,
U of Delaware does not count foreign language taken before 9th grade. They require 2 years and recommend 4.

https://www.udel.edu/apply/undergraduate-admissions/requirements/

Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 13:39     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:FWIW, my kid was accepted ED to UVA last month: took APs in all course areas: AP WL junior year. : Social Studies: AP Gov, APUSH, APHUG. Math: AP BC Calc. Language Arts: AP Lang. Science: AP Bio, AP Env Science. They covered all subject areas.
SAT score in the low 1400s
4.38 GPA
Fcps- middle to low ranked school

Most kids from their school that were admitted, also took AP WL. Many took it junior year. Some came from language immersion programs.


These are great stats, no matter what school ranking your kid came from. Congrats!

Did your DC do Physics? AP Lit? AP World History?


I forgot to add AP World. Also tool Honors Physics. Issues with schedule and availability of classes. Was not able to take first choice classes this year. Not as many AP sections are offered at their school.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 13:29     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.




Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.


This is the strange thing. We have talked to multiple college counselors and they all say that middle school foreign language does count. They still encourage the child to take another 2 years after that which basically means the student would get to level 4. That means 4 years of world language.

Do you have citations somewhere that says middle school foreign languages don't count? From the professionals we talk to, it is different. I am not saying you are wrong, but would be helpful to know where you got your sources from to make this claim.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 13:15     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:I am getting so many mix messages, from parents and even from high school counselors.

When colleges say "4 years of languages", what do they really mean? I have spoken to a 3 high school counselors and they have said that it means 4 years including those in middle school. They, of course, encourage kids to take as high as students can handle but counselors did say that colleges do not require 4 years of foreign languages to be taken while in HS if the language was started in MS.

But when I go on DCUM, it seems like some are saying things differently? Just curious if any of you have asked a college admin?

We have also seen friends who got admitted to UVA with only 3 years of FL taken while in HS, albeit the highest level the kids took was AP French in 11th grade.

Please help me understand because there seems to be lots of information floating around and I am not sure which is true, even after speaking to the counselors.




Middle school language does not count. Top schools want to see four years of high school foreign language (all four years) in a single language. If you can tack on AP courses that will go a long way towards taking a “most rigorous” curriculum. Bear in mind that most elite colleges have their own foreign language on top of that so they take WL very seriously. Google college expectations foreign language. Talk to your high school college counselor.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:55     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:FWIW, my kid was accepted ED to UVA last month: took APs in all course areas: AP WL junior year. : Social Studies: AP Gov, APUSH, APHUG. Math: AP BC Calc. Language Arts: AP Lang. Science: AP Bio, AP Env Science. They covered all subject areas.
SAT score in the low 1400s
4.38 GPA
Fcps- middle to low ranked school

Most kids from their school that were admitted, also took AP WL. Many took it junior year. Some came from language immersion programs.


These are great stats, no matter what school ranking your kid came from. Congrats!

Did your DC do Physics? AP Lit? AP World History?
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:38     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:FWIW, my kid was accepted ED to UVA last month: took APs in all course areas: AP WL junior year. : Social Studies: AP Gov, APUSH, APHUG. Math: AP BC Calc. Language Arts: AP Lang. Science: AP Bio, AP Env Science. They covered all subject areas.
SAT score in the low 1400s
4.38 GPA
Fcps- middle to low ranked school

Most kids from their school that were admitted, also took AP WL. Many took it junior year. Some came from language immersion programs.



This is important. At Langley or McLean, a student with this fantastic resume would likely not get in to UVA. Your high school matters a lot.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:54     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
FWIW, my kid was accepted ED to UVA last month: took APs in all course areas: AP WL junior year. : Social Studies: AP Gov, APUSH, APHUG. Math: AP BC Calc. Language Arts: AP Lang. Science: AP Bio, AP Env Science. They covered all subject areas.
SAT score in the low 1400s
4.38 GPA
Fcps- middle to low ranked school

Most kids from their school that were admitted, also took AP WL. Many took it junior year. Some came from language immersion programs.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:05     Subject: Foreign Languages Requirement
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Good Lord, this forum is a hot bed of misinformation.

There is no college the requires 4 years of a foreign language. Many colleges do not even recommend foreign language. Here is a site that collects this data from the common datasets:

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/foreign-language-requirements

SLACs are more likely to require foreign language (but not 4 years), and to recommend 4 years.


Ivies

They may recommend 4 years, but they do not require. There are successful applicants without the 4th year/level. It's merely one factor when considering rigor.


But that's the point and I haven't seen anyone in this thread disagree outside of the "misinformation" poster. It is a factor when considering rigor and if it matters to a student the best way to address it is to max out with AP Language Jr or Sr year.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer because each student has a different combination of courses comprising rigor. Students do not need to max out every single subject area in order to have sufficient rigor for top schools.