Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:59     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the factors you list create more meritocracy but the overall level of achievement is markedly higher today than back then. Whatever grade inflation and SAT scoring you want to cite, students are taking more advanced courses sooner than ever before. They’re just smarter than we ever were.


College professor here. I disagree completely. I can tell you that students’ performance in recent years has plummeted and that the overall quality is far lower than in the time period to which OP referred. Grade inflation and test score inflation mask what is really going on. The quality of education in this country has declined significantly.


But your only college professor, so really not top if the food chain. You literally haven’t left college yet.

And yet they know the difference between your and you're
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:57     Subject: I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:Firstly, family wealth was probably a far greater influence than grades; however, are meritocratic values really the best measures for what a college wants and needs? Does it really matter if someone got a 1400 vs a 1500 SAT in terms of their future success? (By the way, SAT scores are highly correlated with wealth, which goes back to the wealth factor above.) Don’t people who have different skill sets still bring value (i.e. different viewpoints)? I think the point schools are trying to make is that they don’t necessarily want only people who have the highest grades — there are other skills and perspectives to bring to the table.


SAT scores are more correlated with race than wealth. Which is uncomfortable to discuss.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:55     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the factors you list create more meritocracy but the overall level of achievement is markedly higher today than back then. Whatever grade inflation and SAT scoring you want to cite, students are taking more advanced courses sooner than ever before. They’re just smarter than we ever were.


Disagree. The “advanced” classes are easier than the “regular” classes of yesteryear. Heck, in many schools, particularly open-enrollment public high schools, there are no “regular” classes, every class is somehow “honors” or higher. Lots of kids taking AP exams and failing them. That is unfortunate as I think it’s better to take one AP exam, study really well for it, and get a 5 than take four AP exams in one month and get 3’s on all of them. Quality over quantity is not in vogue.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:49     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the factors you list create more meritocracy but the overall level of achievement is markedly higher today than back then. Whatever grade inflation and SAT scoring you want to cite, students are taking more advanced courses sooner than ever before. They’re just smarter than we ever were.


College professor here. I disagree completely. I can tell you that students’ performance in recent years has plummeted and that the overall quality is far lower than in the time period to which OP referred. Grade inflation and test score inflation mask what is really going on. The quality of education in this country has declined significantly.


But your only college professor, so really not top if the food chain. You literally haven’t left college yet.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:48     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Lol … college admissions was more meritocratic when men didn’t have to compete with anyone.

Oh lol that’s hilarious.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:47     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the factors you list create more meritocracy but the overall level of achievement is markedly higher today than back then. Whatever grade inflation and SAT scoring you want to cite, students are taking more advanced courses sooner than ever before. They’re just smarter than we ever were.


College professor here. I disagree completely. I can tell you that students’ performance in recent years has plummeted and that the overall quality is far lower than in the time period to which OP referred. Grade inflation and test score inflation mask what is really going on. The quality of education in this country has declined significantly.


Ok “professor”. I’m more apt to believe you’re the OP.


I’m sure Jeff can confirm I am not, but you are free to remain incredulous that you might be wrong. I am indeed a college professor and what I described is a well-established problem across universities.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:45     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the factors you list create more meritocracy but the overall level of achievement is markedly higher today than back then. Whatever grade inflation and SAT scoring you want to cite, students are taking more advanced courses sooner than ever before. They’re just smarter than we ever were.


College professor here. I disagree completely. I can tell you that students’ performance in recent years has plummeted and that the overall quality is far lower than in the time period to which OP referred. Grade inflation and test score inflation mask what is really going on. The quality of education in this country has declined significantly.


Ok “professor”. I’m more apt to believe you’re the OP.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:43     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The reason it is harder right now is that there are many more qualified applicants than ever before.
No one is "taking the spot" that "rightfully belongs" to any particular kid.
The good news is that there are hundreds not 30 great schools where every kid of every stat will find their place.


A lot of people don't seem to get this. There are many more applicants today both domestic and international. "Elite" colleges have not increased the sizes of their classes. I don't disagree with OP that grade inflation, TO, and other issues do not help, but, it is fundamentally a numbers game.

I'd be interested to see it go back to paper applications. Kids today have no appreciation for how time consuming it was to apply to college before they moved everything online.


I mean, that’s one thing that’s never going to happen. They aren’t going to have paper applications.


And what purpose would that even serve? What a bizarre suggestion!
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:42     Subject: I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Firstly, family wealth was probably a far greater influence than grades; however, are meritocratic values really the best measures for what a college wants and needs? Does it really matter if someone got a 1400 vs a 1500 SAT in terms of their future success? (By the way, SAT scores are highly correlated with wealth, which goes back to the wealth factor above.) Don’t people who have different skill sets still bring value (i.e. different viewpoints)? I think the point schools are trying to make is that they don’t necessarily want only people who have the highest grades — there are other skills and perspectives to bring to the table.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:17     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the factors you list create more meritocracy but the overall level of achievement is markedly higher today than back then. Whatever grade inflation and SAT scoring you want to cite, students are taking more advanced courses sooner than ever before. They’re just smarter than we ever were.


College professor here. I disagree completely. I can tell you that students’ performance in recent years has plummeted and that the overall quality is far lower than in the time period to which OP referred. Grade inflation and test score inflation mask what is really going on. The quality of education in this country has declined significantly.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:13     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The reason it is harder right now is that there are many more qualified applicants than ever before.
No one is "taking the spot" that "rightfully belongs" to any particular kid.
The good news is that there are hundreds not 30 great schools where every kid of every stat will find their place.


A lot of people don't seem to get this. There are many more applicants today both domestic and international. "Elite" colleges have not increased the sizes of their classes. I don't disagree with OP that grade inflation, TO, and other issues do not help, but, it is fundamentally a numbers game.

I'd be interested to see it go back to paper applications. Kids today have no appreciation for how time consuming it was to apply to college before they moved everything online.


I mean, that’s one thing that’s never going to happen. They aren’t going to have paper applications.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:06     Subject: I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:Just repeal need blind and full need met and we can return to a time when meritocracy ruled, at least among those who could afford it.


Easy access to federal student loans drove tuition up as well.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 07:05     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Anonymous wrote:The reason it is harder right now is that there are many more qualified applicants than ever before.
No one is "taking the spot" that "rightfully belongs" to any particular kid.
The good news is that there are hundreds not 30 great schools where every kid of every stat will find their place.


A lot of people don't seem to get this. There are many more applicants today both domestic and international. "Elite" colleges have not increased the sizes of their classes. I don't disagree with OP that grade inflation, TO, and other issues do not help, but, it is fundamentally a numbers game.

I'd be interested to see it go back to paper applications. Kids today have no appreciation for how time consuming it was to apply to college before they moved everything online.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 06:59     Subject: I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
Just repeal need blind and full need met and we can return to a time when meritocracy ruled, at least among those who could afford it.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2023 06:56     Subject: Re:I believe that admission to elite schools were much more meritocratic 20 years ago versus today
The reason it is harder right now is that there are many more qualified applicants than ever before.
No one is "taking the spot" that "rightfully belongs" to any particular kid.
The good news is that there are hundreds not 30 great schools where every kid of every stat will find their place.