I know so many people (all women) who take such pleasure in using “manners” as a cudgel.

It’s bad enough to take aim at other adults, but bashing children just reveals a cruel streak.

Anonymous wrote:NP- I can't believe you all are ragging on the PP. God your kids just be brats. Guess what? Even kids with anxiety, adhd and on the spectrum can have manners. I know this because my kids do. She is spot on that there is way too much coddling these days. And I'm 35, not some crotchety boomer.

I don't think that any PP said that it is fine that OP's son doesn't say please or thank you. We just think that there are more productive ways to help her son than just telling him to suck it up and do it or he doesn't get anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

OP's child is saying please and thank you. Are you illiterate?

If nobody can hear it being said, it doesn't count. The point of talking is to communicate with another person. If the other person can't hear OP's son saying please or thank you, then they essentially aren't saying it.

OP, is your son comfortable speaking around adults that are not relatives or caregivers? You framed your concern in the context of not being polite, but I’m wondering if the underlying problem is that he is anxious about speaking and interacting with people he doesn’t know well, which encompasses being polite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

Some things are unacceptable TO YOU. You don’t speak for everybody. I’m sure there are things your kids struggle to do even with your *perfect* whip-style parenting.

Anonymous wrote:NP- I can't believe you all are ragging on the PP. God your kids just be brats. Guess what? Even kids with anxiety, adhd and on the spectrum can have manners. I know this because my kids do. She is spot on that there is way too much coddling these days. And I'm 35, not some crotchety boomer.

Odds are high your kids are nasty bullies.

Anonymous wrote:NP- I can't believe you all are ragging on the PP. God your kids just be brats. Guess what? Even kids with anxiety, adhd and on the spectrum can have manners. I know this because my kids do. She is spot on that there is way too much coddling these days. And I'm 35, not some crotchety boomer.

I am not sure you are a different poster as you have a similar writing style, but

I always find this such a silly argument.

NP- I can't believe you all are ragging on the PP. God your kids just be brats. Guess what? Even kids with anxiety, adhd and on the spectrum can have manners. I know this because my kids do. She is spot on that there is way too much coddling these days. And I'm 35, not some crotchety boomer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

Putting aside the last sentence. do you think all kids respond the same to what you are calling "coddling?" Have you ever experienced a situation with your children in which pushing backfired?

I am quoting myself above -- i am actually finding this discussion really interesting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

OP's child is saying please and thank you. Are you illiterate?

PP is a proudly ignorant woman

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

Putting aside the last sentence. do you think all kids respond the same to what you are calling "coddling?" Have you ever experienced a situation with your children in which pushing backfired?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

OP's child is saying please and thank you. Are you illiterate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

So basically, you are saying that if my kids aren't doing all the things they should be, that is because I as a parent failed?

I'm saying excusing bad behavior is a failure. Obviously kids are a work in progress but you do have to push them rather than coddle them all the time. And if a kid can't say please and thank you then they don't get things. If they can speak, they are required to say those phrases.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids around age 2 and 3 that not all kids had such good manners as them and to be very proud of themselves for their wonderful manners, and to say it "loud and proud." Why did you let him get to such an old age without working on this much earlier?

What does he think will happen if people notice he said thank you? They'll ... say you're welcome? Honestly, at his age I'd find it totally unacceptable and not allow him to accept anything unless he can say thank you. No ordering food in restaurants, no gifts, nothing. Not until he can bring himself to look people in the eye for the half second it takes to audibly say thank you. This coddling is total BS.

This is really myopic. Do you understand that some people have challenges your children may not face? I am a parent of 4, and although I typically have a hard time when people with larger families deride those with fewer children, I understand why they do -- life hasn't yet taught you that kids aren't in your completely control.

Yes, of course I do. But some things are unacceptable. Sometimes my kids have to push themselves and be uncomfortable for a couple of seconds or hours or whatever, because that's life. They learn to cope and push through things to do what needs to get done. I also have four, and when one of mine went through a shy phase they weren't allowed to accept the free cookie the bakery lady offered them since they wouldn't say thank you. And guess what? Seeing their three siblings munching away happily helped them get over themselves.

Holy %$#@!

This sounds like it is in the realm of selective mutism, which is driven by anxiety. I would start by practicing with him as others have suggested, but if that doesn't improve the situation, it may be time to reach out to a therapist. If this type of shutting down affects his performance in school, you may also want to consider anti-anxiety meds.

In the meantime, keep modeling the behavior when you are with him. After he quietly says thank you, you can make eye contact with the person and thank them clearly. You shouldn't explain why your son's thank you was inaudible or put him on the spot; just thank the person and move on. And lots of praise in private for when your son is at all successful with this.