Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the responses. DH is great about addressing things in the moment: “No, it’s fine for Caroline to go ride bikes with her friends; you’ll have plenty of time with her tonight and tomorrow.” “Yes, Jessica is going into the office today—I told you before we made plans for this visit that she can’t take off a lot of time.” “Mom, we’re all beat—we’re turning in early tonight.”

But if other posters think an official come to Jesus is for the best, I guess we’d rather try that than just shut them out.

I'm a +1 on an official come to Jesus chat. I think you acknowledge what they expect and then simply say that it's not possible to do that anymore and explain that you need to be more casual, but something will be planned for dinner/lunch/breakfast (or whatever you choose) every day and then make sure the whole family is there unless there's something that really can't be put off.

Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:Every grandparent I know comments about the endless energy of young children. We relish the downtime. I guess you could wear them out like a puppy dog. Let’s go to the park, take a hike and then, off to the zoo. Or, use your words and tell them the kids need/want some time to play on their own. Are there other grandchildren? What are their expectations with them?

OP here. Talk about pressure: ours are the only grandchildren within driving distance, and only biological grandchildren. They FT my SIL an and her kids every now and then, and only fly to Oregon to see them every few years. They have seen them exactly once since COVID. Other grandkids also don’t celebrate Christmas, so that heightens it with us. Grandkid performance pressure beyond. They walk on eggshells with SIL and her wife, and stomp all over us.

OP, that sounds terrible. I'm sorry your ILs have such poor social skills. My MIL and I don't see eye to eye on everything, but when she started visiting us she made a point of going out by herself for a walk, or retiring to her room to read or "rest" every day for an hour or two. She also usually has a book handy and has no problem entertaining herself for a bit if the rest of us need to attend to something. When we visit her we do the same. I mentioned it once and told her I hope she didn't mind and she literally said "No, that is what good guests do to give the host a break. I do it at your house, too."

I don't know if it's better to confront in advance or just have your DH keep responding in the moment. I guess since it's starting to affect your children's relationship with their grandparents it might be worth trying to confront. If they choose to ignore and the relationship continues to sour, you all have done everything you can do. You could also consider limiting visits.

OP - you stay in a hotel. You go to their house for 2-3 hours and give them your full attention. If they are coming to you, they stay in a hotel. You issue an invite. They are invited to come for dinner, please come at 5pm and the evening will end at 8pm.

Every grandparent I know comments about the endless energy of young children. We relish the downtime. I guess you could wear them out like a puppy dog. Let’s go to the park, take a hike and then, off to the zoo. Or, use your words and tell them the kids need/want some time to play on their own. Are there other grandchildren? What are their expectations with them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the responses. DH is great about addressing things in the moment: “No, it’s fine for Caroline to go ride bikes with her friends; you’ll have plenty of time with her tonight and tomorrow.” “Yes, Jessica is going into the office today—I told you before we made plans for this visit that she can’t take off a lot of time.” “Mom, we’re all beat—we’re turning in early tonight.”

But if other posters think an official come to Jesus is for the best, I guess we’d rather try that than just shut them out.

Yes, your husband needs to have a talk in general. Be sure and figure out what you enjoy about time with them so you can throw that in and not make them feel attacked. I would have him practice what he will say to make sure it direct, but not hurtful. That is the first step. If you find that and reminders as needed are not enough, next step is hotels when you visit them and they visit you.

Sorry, but there is no way to have that conversation without them feeling attacked and hurt.

Well for most people who aren’t total pushovers the alternative would be to just increasingly make excuses to limit time together/avoid visits. Which would you prefer? to temporarily feel a little hurt by a hard truth or to have opportunities to spend time with your child and his family mysteriously decrease and for your grandchildren to dread your visits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone successfully navigated or changed the well-known dynamic where visits with ILs are stifling, due to the whole “we expect our guests [or hosts] to give us full attention 24/7, and even reading a magazine is rude”? Our last visit with ILs over the holidays was painful—absolutely stifling—and it’s getting to the point where my kids are old enough to notice, want time to themselves, and are very uncomfortable when ILs are around.

ILs are able-bodied and have their full mental faculties. This has been a longstanding dynamic, it’s just now at a point where it’s not just DH and me noticing it, the kids are starting to dread their visits, too. They simply don’t want to sit around in a circle and “chat” all the time. They want to be able to move about the house (our own house!) freely, without getting accused of “disappearing” every time they dare to go to their rooms to play or read or relax for a bit. My oldest nearly snapped when they loudly asked “WHERE WERE YOU” for the 500th time, and she was simply in the bathroom. She’s getting to be the age where she doesn’t want to discuss that she was in the bathroom.

We plan lots of activities, and DH and I run point between ILs and the kids to protect them from the constant observation and commentary. ILs being dreaded by my kids is basically ILs reaping what they sowed. I want the dynamic to change for the better, and I don’t want to distance ourselves from ILs, but it’s to the point where when we say we’re going to visit ILs or they are coming here, my kids are not into it, at all.

Has anyone ever succceeded in trying to get people to chill out during visits and not expect 100% Together Time, constantly talking and staring?

OP, I think your ILs have expectations that the children will sit and be social. What you describe can be seen as rude behavior. The kids should sit and make conversation with the ILs who have come to see them. I don't believe your story about the bathroom

Same as you would a toddler - tell them what’s coming “That activity was great fun. I’m going to go take a quick nap for an hour - feel free to so so too if you’d like, or relax here. I’ll see you at 5:00 for happy hour!”

Anonymous wrote:You can have one set time with all of you when you are "visiting" with the ILs.

Everyone dresses up nicely and you all sit down for tea, coffee, milk and cake or cookies, one day for an hour or so. DH takes some pictures of the family and then the kids do their normal routine.

Maybe your kids are rude and ill-behaved? Maybe your ILs are old fashioned? My kids are young and they know how to visit my ILs for an hour or so. I will dress my kids up and take pictures with ILs. Later I send them these pictures and my ILs are very happy with it.

I am sorry OP, but usually I absolutely dismiss the DILs who are bad mouthing their MILs.

OP here. We have far more than “one set time” with them during visits. We eat ALL meals together, we usually do activities like a museum or a low-key hike, puzzles, drive around and look at Christmas lights, go to church, etc., etc. But we’re talking my ILs whining that my daughters were reading the books and doing the activity books they got for Christmas, or dared to play with the toys they got on Christmas. Basically anything other than sitting and “chatting” or “visiting” is seen as rude. Can you imagine expecting children not to play with the toys they got on Christmas, or read the books they got on Christmas? My youngest even tried to get my FIL to play with her Shashibo cube (fidget toy) with her, but he didn’t want to.

My kids are both straight-A students that teachers, camp directors, pastor/churchgoers and other parents praise for their manners. This past holiday, they were super polite and went the extra mile, until finally my oldest was honestly embarrassed and exasperated when she was accused of “disappearing” when she had just been going to the restroom.

They are stifling. And it’s not only DH and I who think so; his sister and her family feel the same way. Even MIL’s best friend AND FIL’s sister have been known to say “at ease, Janie,” the running joke being that she is known to be high-strung and literally follows people around.

You are 100% out of line to A) act like we don’t devote tons of time as focused time for ILs—we do—and B) act like my kids aren’t well-behaved. They are.

Anonymous wrote:You can have one set time with all of you when you are "visiting" with the ILs.

Everyone dresses up nicely and you all sit down for tea, coffee, milk and cake or cookies, one day for an hour or so. DH takes some pictures of the family and then the kids do their normal routine.

Maybe your kids are rude and ill-behaved? Maybe your ILs are old fashioned? My kids are young and they know how to visit my ILs for an hour or so. I will dress my kids up and take pictures with ILs. Later I send them these pictures and my ILs are very happy with it.

I am sorry OP, but usually I absolutely dismiss the DILs who are bad mouthing their MILs.

I think it's this. I've been on DCUM long enough to know the DIL stories are usually grossly exaggerated and tell only one side.

My MIL is a bully and it’s not worth it to speak to her, she manipulates everything. But I just avoid her as much as possible which is the only solution that has worked for me.

You can have one set time with all of you when you are "visiting" with the ILs.

Everyone dresses up nicely and you all sit down for tea, coffee, milk and cake or cookies, one day for an hour or so. DH takes some pictures of the family and then the kids do their normal routine.

Maybe your kids are rude and ill-behaved? Maybe your ILs are old fashioned? My kids are young and they know how to visit my ILs for an hour or so. I will dress my kids up and take pictures with ILs. Later I send them these pictures and my ILs are very happy with it.

I am sorry OP, but usually I absolutely dismiss the DILs who are bad mouthing their MILs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the responses. DH is great about addressing things in the moment: “No, it’s fine for Caroline to go ride bikes with her friends; you’ll have plenty of time with her tonight and tomorrow.” “Yes, Jessica is going into the office today—I told you before we made plans for this visit that she can’t take off a lot of time.” “Mom, we’re all beat—we’re turning in early tonight.”

But if other posters think an official come to Jesus is for the best, I guess we’d rather try that than just shut them out.

Yes, your husband needs to have a talk in general. Be sure and figure out what you enjoy about time with them so you can throw that in and not make them feel attacked. I would have him practice what he will say to make sure it direct, but not hurtful. That is the first step. If you find that and reminders as needed are not enough, next step is hotels when you visit them and they visit you.

Sorry, but there is no way to have that conversation without them feeling attacked and hurt.

Do you want to foster love or guilt and obligation? Grandparents are living longer so guilt and obligation only work so long before the kids will be young adults with their own choices. If you help the grandparents gently accept teens have different needs and boundaries, hou help foster genuine love and connection. If they give the teens space and try to meet them where they are, there is more chance the teens will want to be involved with them. If you insist the teens suck it up and you all decide out of guilt you must suck it up and tip toe around their feelings, then you risk creating guilt, obligation and fear which are the ingredients for resentment. They could live a loooong time and you want to enjoy those years, not dread visits. Also, it is good exercise for their brains to have to adapt to where everyone is developmentally. It's about social skills. They will need to adapt with their friends as well over the years and as friends pass they will need to keep social skills sharp to make more friends. Don't enable them to be difficult and rigid. help them grow and adapt with the family.

I mean, ok? Have the conversation, sure, if you want. But they will feel hurt; they will feel defensive. Don’t kid yourselves on that. If they were able to adapt easily and not take things personally, they would have done so by reading the social cues or listening to the words their son has been saying during the visits. For whatever reason, perhaps this is how they were raised, they think it’s appropriate to behave the way they are. Telling them they are all wrong and are alienating OP and grandkids, no matter how nicely you try to frame it, is unlikely to go well and may lead to resentment and anger.

I’m in favor of the advice to go about your business and stop caring about it - in other words; manage yourself and your reactions rather than trying to change other people, especially people in their 70s, 80s, etc. Tell your kids that it may be annoying, but this is how their gparents are, so try to give them grace when possible. Teach your kids how to answer the questions innocuously - Oh, I just had something to take care of, grandma (instead of saying you were in the bathroom), etc. Those are good skills as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the responses. DH is great about addressing things in the moment: “No, it’s fine for Caroline to go ride bikes with her friends; you’ll have plenty of time with her tonight and tomorrow.” “Yes, Jessica is going into the office today—I told you before we made plans for this visit that she can’t take off a lot of time.” “Mom, we’re all beat—we’re turning in early tonight.”

But if other posters think an official come to Jesus is for the best, I guess we’d rather try that than just shut them out.

Yes, your husband needs to have a talk in general. Be sure and figure out what you enjoy about time with them so you can throw that in and not make them feel attacked. I would have him practice what he will say to make sure it direct, but not hurtful. That is the first step. If you find that and reminders as needed are not enough, next step is hotels when you visit them and they visit you.

Sorry, but there is no way to have that conversation without them feeling attacked and hurt.

Do you want to foster love or guilt and obligation? Grandparents are living longer so guilt and obligation only work so long before the kids will be young adults with their own choices. If you help the grandparents gently accept teens have different needs and boundaries, hou help foster genuine love and connection. If they give the teens space and try to meet them where they are, there is more chance the teens will want to be involved with them. If you insist the teens suck it up and you all decide out of guilt you must suck it up and tip toe around their feelings, then you risk creating guilt, obligation and fear which are the ingredients for resentment. They could live a loooong time and you want to enjoy those years, not dread visits. Also, it is good exercise for their brains to have to adapt to where everyone is developmentally. It's about social skills. They will need to adapt with their friends as well over the years and as friends pass they will need to keep social skills sharp to make more friends. Don't enable them to be difficult and rigid. help them grow and adapt with the family.

I agree, DH should talk to them to set expectations. I wouldn’t set an ultimatum or anything about staying in a hotel, but just frame it that the kids are getting older, they will be taking more time to do their own activities. Yes, you will get less time with them, just as we do as parents, but this is appropriate & healthy for their age. To keep the family time positive, please don’t complain to them about the time they are spending separate from us. They are learning a balance & so are we.

And then with DH and kids, make specific plans for the wkend - we will do this altogether, Larla will have this activity, etc (as much as you can). Then you can give ILs the plan for the day - we are doing X, then Larla’s going to her friend’s while we do x, and then we’ll all be back to get dinner at x restaurant. Get the kids out of the house if they want for some of the visit.