Anonymous
01/11/2023 11:00
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here.
The logistical aspect is related to the fact that the other parent doesn’t have work flexibility with hours, whereas I do and can watch the kids whenever necessary. The other parent said they would simply ask me to watch the kids if they can’t do so during their parenting time.
There’s a lot of other evidence I’ve gathered that is unrelated to this that shows a pattern of inconsistency on the part of the other parent as well.
2 things - First, one issue with custody being dependent on job flexibility is that the job or the flexibility can change, and then custody can easily be modified.
Two, it is fine to have childcare during your parenting time; in fact, that is what most of America does. In your case if I were the other parent I would argue that I'll get childcare during my work hours if needed. This would deprive you of the opportunity to have the kids while the other parent is working. It is not the case that parents who work little have preference in custody arrangements solely because of that.
But OP’s X doesn’t want to hire a nanny. He plans to just dump the kids on her without adjusting child support to reflect the fact she’s actually doing the minding.
Ex doesn’t have the ability to pay for childcare, hence needing to use me.
Or get child support from you so they can pay for childcare....
Would a judge actually go for an arrangement in which one parent has to pay for child support to the other in order for them to get childcare, when the parent paying has the ability to care for the kids?
No one on this board can give you this level of advice. Only an attorney with experience in family court in your area will even begin to be able to advise you.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:57
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:My sister’s XH was mentally ill and he still got 50-50 custody. Judges don’t care about the kids.
Or they prioritize things differently than you do. 50-50 is a benefit for most children, and “mental illness,” by itself, shouldn’t be enough to change that. Mental illness that harms the kids more than 50-50 benefits them is the relevant issue, but if the illness is that harmful, perhaps the other parent shouldn’t get any time at all.l, so that would be a very high bar.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:52
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:According to many on the custody threads, any father who wants 50/50 gets it and any father who doesn’t have 50/50 didn’t want it. So if he wants it, I would say he will get it based on the experiences of those who post about custody.
I find it hard to go by what’s written on these threads since it’s such a small sample size, and such few custody cases are actually decided by a judge. In DC less than 10% of cases go to trial!
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:50
Subject: Re:What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:OP, there are a few things going on in your situation and I just want to highlight some things for you to flag and discuss with your attorney. This is not legal advice.
First, the default is 50/50 in custody arrangements and the primary concern a judge will have in altering it from this is the "best interests of the child", which can be a very subjective metric but it's important to frame any argument in that way. The PP who said the judge will look at fairness to you and your ex is not quite right. That might contribute to a subconscious bias towards fairness as the judge see it, but the actual legal justification will have to be "this is what is best for the kids." So frame any argument for a particular arrangement as "this serves the kids needs best" or "the 50/50 arrangement will not meet the kid's needs because x,y, and z."
This also give you the benefit of framing arguments so you have the higher ground. If one parent is saying they want a certain arrangement because it's more convenient tot them, and the other is saying that they want something because it benefits the kids, the judge will be more inclined to listen to the person arguing for the kid's interest.
Regarding childcare arrangements, be careful here. When you say your X "plans" to rely on you for childcare during their custody days, what is this based on? If it's just comments during arguments, the judge will not find that persuasive to alter a 50/50 agreement. You need concrete evidence that your X does not have any way of arranging childcare during their custody days. Even lack of income isn't enough because what about family, friends, subsidized childcare at the school, etc.? Your X is a parent and the judge will say "it's your job to provide childcare for your kids when you have custody." As long as your X will say in court "yes, I will do that" the judge is unlikely to change a 50/50 agreement for this.
Now, if you've been in the 50/50 arrangement for a while and your X consistently contacts you or brings the kids to you on their days for care, document all of that and bring it to the judge. The judge is more likely to change an agreement if there is an established pattern of one party violating the existing agreement, which is what that would be. But it needs to be a consistent pattern, it can't be a few one offs.
Also, speak to your attorney about what is considered evidence and what isn't. Often people have an idea that they have lots of evidence and don't understand that much of it has no bearing on the case. In very personal disputes, people will often have evidence in the form of things people said in conversations, rude emails, etc. Most of that will have zero impact on a judge and trying to use it to persuade the judge will just annoy them because it takes up time in court. There are only a handful of factors a judge will look at in making decisions, and everything else is irrelevant, including many things that might feel very relevant to your out-of-court relationship with the other party.
Stick to "best interests of the children" and be as practical as possible. I know it's hard, but try to separate your emotions about your X out of it. Focus on your kids. That is what the judge will find most compelling because it goes directly to the legal standard the judge is supposed to use in making these decisions.
Thank you for your detailed response! My attorney has definitely helped me to establish everything in terms of the kids, and feels as if what we have documented is strong. Thus far the judge seems fair and reasonable, but my attorney has never worked with this particular judge so the potential outcome is still a bit unknown. I was hoping to get a better sense of what judges in general in DC have the tendency to focus on. My nerves are high even though my attorney doesn’t seem too worried!
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:39
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
According to many on the custody threads, any father who wants 50/50 gets it and any father who doesn’t have 50/50 didn’t want it. So if he wants it, I would say he will get it based on the experiences of those who post about custody.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:36
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Not much
Unless they see $$$$$$ by high conflict individual who can’t agree on anything. Then they collide with one of the sides lawyers and start order $50k psych studies, $50k supervised visits, $50k of interviews, $50k parenting classes….
Unless they see $$$$$$ by high conflict individual who can’t agree on anything. Then they collide with one of the sides lawyers and start order $50k psych studies, $50k supervised visits, $50k of interviews, $50k parenting classes….
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:35
Subject: Re:What do judges care about when deciding custody?
OP, there are a few things going on in your situation and I just want to highlight some things for you to flag and discuss with your attorney. This is not legal advice.
First, the default is 50/50 in custody arrangements and the primary concern a judge will have in altering it from this is the "best interests of the child", which can be a very subjective metric but it's important to frame any argument in that way. The PP who said the judge will look at fairness to you and your ex is not quite right. That might contribute to a subconscious bias towards fairness as the judge see it, but the actual legal justification will have to be "this is what is best for the kids." So frame any argument for a particular arrangement as "this serves the kids needs best" or "the 50/50 arrangement will not meet the kid's needs because x,y, and z."
This also give you the benefit of framing arguments so you have the higher ground. If one parent is saying they want a certain arrangement because it's more convenient tot them, and the other is saying that they want something because it benefits the kids, the judge will be more inclined to listen to the person arguing for the kid's interest.
Regarding childcare arrangements, be careful here. When you say your X "plans" to rely on you for childcare during their custody days, what is this based on? If it's just comments during arguments, the judge will not find that persuasive to alter a 50/50 agreement. You need concrete evidence that your X does not have any way of arranging childcare during their custody days. Even lack of income isn't enough because what about family, friends, subsidized childcare at the school, etc.? Your X is a parent and the judge will say "it's your job to provide childcare for your kids when you have custody." As long as your X will say in court "yes, I will do that" the judge is unlikely to change a 50/50 agreement for this.
Now, if you've been in the 50/50 arrangement for a while and your X consistently contacts you or brings the kids to you on their days for care, document all of that and bring it to the judge. The judge is more likely to change an agreement if there is an established pattern of one party violating the existing agreement, which is what that would be. But it needs to be a consistent pattern, it can't be a few one offs.
Also, speak to your attorney about what is considered evidence and what isn't. Often people have an idea that they have lots of evidence and don't understand that much of it has no bearing on the case. In very personal disputes, people will often have evidence in the form of things people said in conversations, rude emails, etc. Most of that will have zero impact on a judge and trying to use it to persuade the judge will just annoy them because it takes up time in court. There are only a handful of factors a judge will look at in making decisions, and everything else is irrelevant, including many things that might feel very relevant to your out-of-court relationship with the other party.
Stick to "best interests of the children" and be as practical as possible. I know it's hard, but try to separate your emotions about your X out of it. Focus on your kids. That is what the judge will find most compelling because it goes directly to the legal standard the judge is supposed to use in making these decisions.
First, the default is 50/50 in custody arrangements and the primary concern a judge will have in altering it from this is the "best interests of the child", which can be a very subjective metric but it's important to frame any argument in that way. The PP who said the judge will look at fairness to you and your ex is not quite right. That might contribute to a subconscious bias towards fairness as the judge see it, but the actual legal justification will have to be "this is what is best for the kids." So frame any argument for a particular arrangement as "this serves the kids needs best" or "the 50/50 arrangement will not meet the kid's needs because x,y, and z."
This also give you the benefit of framing arguments so you have the higher ground. If one parent is saying they want a certain arrangement because it's more convenient tot them, and the other is saying that they want something because it benefits the kids, the judge will be more inclined to listen to the person arguing for the kid's interest.
Regarding childcare arrangements, be careful here. When you say your X "plans" to rely on you for childcare during their custody days, what is this based on? If it's just comments during arguments, the judge will not find that persuasive to alter a 50/50 agreement. You need concrete evidence that your X does not have any way of arranging childcare during their custody days. Even lack of income isn't enough because what about family, friends, subsidized childcare at the school, etc.? Your X is a parent and the judge will say "it's your job to provide childcare for your kids when you have custody." As long as your X will say in court "yes, I will do that" the judge is unlikely to change a 50/50 agreement for this.
Now, if you've been in the 50/50 arrangement for a while and your X consistently contacts you or brings the kids to you on their days for care, document all of that and bring it to the judge. The judge is more likely to change an agreement if there is an established pattern of one party violating the existing agreement, which is what that would be. But it needs to be a consistent pattern, it can't be a few one offs.
Also, speak to your attorney about what is considered evidence and what isn't. Often people have an idea that they have lots of evidence and don't understand that much of it has no bearing on the case. In very personal disputes, people will often have evidence in the form of things people said in conversations, rude emails, etc. Most of that will have zero impact on a judge and trying to use it to persuade the judge will just annoy them because it takes up time in court. There are only a handful of factors a judge will look at in making decisions, and everything else is irrelevant, including many things that might feel very relevant to your out-of-court relationship with the other party.
Stick to "best interests of the children" and be as practical as possible. I know it's hard, but try to separate your emotions about your X out of it. Focus on your kids. That is what the judge will find most compelling because it goes directly to the legal standard the judge is supposed to use in making these decisions.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:34
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:My sister’s XH was mentally ill and he still got 50-50 custody. Judges don’t care about the kids.
Was this in DC and physical custody?
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:32
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:How old are your kids? Are they in school?
The fact that one person has more flexibility at work isn't going to sway a judge from 50/50 custody. If the other parent is unable to care for them half the time, that might, but if it's a matter of who covers school inservice days or whatever, that's not going to matter.
In school, but young. The concern isn’t scheduled days off school but rather anything unpredictable, which happens quite frequently these days.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:31
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here.
The logistical aspect is related to the fact that the other parent doesn’t have work flexibility with hours, whereas I do and can watch the kids whenever necessary. The other parent said they would simply ask me to watch the kids if they can’t do so during their parenting time.
There’s a lot of other evidence I’ve gathered that is unrelated to this that shows a pattern of inconsistency on the part of the other parent as well.
2 things - First, one issue with custody being dependent on job flexibility is that the job or the flexibility can change, and then custody can easily be modified.
Two, it is fine to have childcare during your parenting time; in fact, that is what most of America does. In your case if I were the other parent I would argue that I'll get childcare during my work hours if needed. This would deprive you of the opportunity to have the kids while the other parent is working. It is not the case that parents who work little have preference in custody arrangements solely because of that.
But OP’s X doesn’t want to hire a nanny. He plans to just dump the kids on her without adjusting child support to reflect the fact she’s actually doing the minding.
Ex doesn’t have the ability to pay for childcare, hence needing to use me.
Or get child support from you so they can pay for childcare....
Would a judge actually go for an arrangement in which one parent has to pay for child support to the other in order for them to get childcare, when the parent paying has the ability to care for the kids?
It's quite possible. A parent with a SAH spouse, for example, will still have to pay child support to the other parent, even though the SAH spouse could care for the kids. Because you get the kids for the whole day, not just the workday. You getting more than 50/50 custody would mean fewer mornings and evenings and nights with the kids, too.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:30
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:OP here.
The logistical aspect is related to the fact that the other parent doesn’t have work flexibility with hours, whereas I do and can watch the kids whenever necessary. The other parent said they would simply ask me to watch the kids if they can’t do so during their parenting time.
There’s a lot of other evidence I’ve gathered that is unrelated to this that shows a pattern of inconsistency on the part of the other parent as well.
Nope. Don’t watch kids during his fifty fifty time unless there is an adjustment in child support for doing so.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:29
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
My sister’s XH was mentally ill and he still got 50-50 custody. Judges don’t care about the kids.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:28
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
How old are your kids? Are they in school?
The fact that one person has more flexibility at work isn't going to sway a judge from 50/50 custody. If the other parent is unable to care for them half the time, that might, but if it's a matter of who covers school inservice days or whatever, that's not going to matter.
The fact that one person has more flexibility at work isn't going to sway a judge from 50/50 custody. If the other parent is unable to care for them half the time, that might, but if it's a matter of who covers school inservice days or whatever, that's not going to matter.
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:27
Subject: What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here.
The logistical aspect is related to the fact that the other parent doesn’t have work flexibility with hours, whereas I do and can watch the kids whenever necessary. The other parent said they would simply ask me to watch the kids if they can’t do so during their parenting time.
There’s a lot of other evidence I’ve gathered that is unrelated to this that shows a pattern of inconsistency on the part of the other parent as well.
2 things - First, one issue with custody being dependent on job flexibility is that the job or the flexibility can change, and then custody can easily be modified.
Two, it is fine to have childcare during your parenting time; in fact, that is what most of America does. In your case if I were the other parent I would argue that I'll get childcare during my work hours if needed. This would deprive you of the opportunity to have the kids while the other parent is working. It is not the case that parents who work little have preference in custody arrangements solely because of that.
But OP’s X doesn’t want to hire a nanny. He plans to just dump the kids on her without adjusting child support to reflect the fact she’s actually doing the minding.
Ex doesn’t have the ability to pay for childcare, hence needing to use me.
Or get child support from you so they can pay for childcare....
Would a judge actually go for an arrangement in which one parent has to pay for child support to the other in order for them to get childcare, when the parent paying has the ability to care for the kids?
Anonymous
01/11/2023 10:24
Subject: Re:What do judges care about when deciding custody?
Anonymous wrote:I got 80% custody because I had been the primary caregiver while my ex travelled 80 nights a year for a decade. He’s also a drunk.
Based on what you’ve written it’s not enough to deny 50/50.
What kind of work do you do that you can provide endless childcare at all hours?
I am able to work remotely. I’m leaving out other details to not be too specific about this particular case, but there are many other factors as well. I’m just trying to figure out what to highlight.