Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 16:28     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here we go, folks.

“The Treasury Department on Friday said that it will begin “extraordinary measures” next week to prevent the United States government from defaulting on its payment obligations, as lawmakers in Washington prepare for a potentially devastating fiscal showdown.
In a letter to congressional officials, Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen said the administration would on Jan. 19 begin repurposing federal funds to extend the date by which the government will run out of money. Congress must pass a law raising the debt limit from its current total of $31.4 trillion or the Treasury can’t borrow any more, even to pay for spending lawmakers have already authorized.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/01/13/debt-limit-extraordinary-measures-treasury/


I sure wish Democrats had taken care of this during the lame duck period in December. But—for some mystifying reason—they didn’t. Now we get to watch Joe Biden prostrate himself and agree to draconian cuts in Social Security in order to appease Republicans and avoid catastrophe.


No mystifying reason. They counted the votes. They needed 60 votes in the Senate and they passed everything that all 50 Democrats plus 10 Republicans would support.


It could have been attached to a reconciliation bill, which only requires 50 + a tiebreaker.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 16:26     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that defaulting on debt does not “save taxpayers $$.” This is money already spent.


There is no defaulting being discussed. What would happen is the Treasury would not be allowed to borrow beyond a certain limit, so some spending would have to be withheld.
There would be an issue of having to pay debt that rolls over, and then they are not allowed to borrow again to make those payments.


Withholding spending money that has been appropriated would be a manner of default. The law requires the executive to spend appropriated funds for its purposes. It has a legal obligation to pay SS benefits, make grants to states, pay Medicare claims, pay employee salaries and benefits, pay veterans benefits, etc. The debt limit basically puts the executive in a situation where it has to violate a law because the law caps the amount the can be borrowed and the amount that can be raised via taxes to less than the amount that is required to be spent.


So we have to put up hostage-taking and extortion until the next revolution/constitution?
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 15:54     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that defaulting on debt does not “save taxpayers $$.” This is money already spent.


There is no defaulting being discussed. What would happen is the Treasury would not be allowed to borrow beyond a certain limit, so some spending would have to be withheld.
There would be an issue of having to pay debt that rolls over, and then they are not allowed to borrow again to make those payments.


Withholding spending money that has been appropriated would be a manner of default. The law requires the executive to spend appropriated funds for its purposes. It has a legal obligation to pay SS benefits, make grants to states, pay Medicare claims, pay employee salaries and benefits, pay veterans benefits, etc. The debt limit basically puts the executive in a situation where it has to violate a law because the law caps the amount the can be borrowed and the amount that can be raised via taxes to less than the amount that is required to be spent.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 15:48     Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:DOJ needs to declare the debt limit unconstitutional and move on.


Unfortunately I don't think that would really solve the issue. If they did that, there would likely be lawsuits and there would be a legal cloud over the validity of debt issued after debt ceiling was breached. And that cloud would affect the price of Treasuries, probably in a big way.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 15:38     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here we go, folks.

“The Treasury Department on Friday said that it will begin “extraordinary measures” next week to prevent the United States government from defaulting on its payment obligations, as lawmakers in Washington prepare for a potentially devastating fiscal showdown.
In a letter to congressional officials, Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen said the administration would on Jan. 19 begin repurposing federal funds to extend the date by which the government will run out of money. Congress must pass a law raising the debt limit from its current total of $31.4 trillion or the Treasury can’t borrow any more, even to pay for spending lawmakers have already authorized.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/01/13/debt-limit-extraordinary-measures-treasury/


I sure wish Democrats had taken care of this during the lame duck period in December. But—for some mystifying reason—they didn’t. Now we get to watch Joe Biden prostrate himself and agree to draconian cuts in Social Security in order to appease Republicans and avoid catastrophe.


No mystifying reason. They counted the votes. They needed 60 votes in the Senate and they passed everything that all 50 Democrats plus 10 Republicans would support.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 15:33     Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I fear, however, he will pathetically negotiate against himself and get rolled and utterly demoralize his base.


It's the democratic way. It's not a game of chicken when one side doesn't care if they crash


The way I see it, House Republicans are going to shoot the hostage eventually someday. That’s not in doubt. Question is, will Democrats give them a bunch of unearned rewards along the way?
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 15:18     Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:

I fear, however, he will pathetically negotiate against himself and get rolled and utterly demoralize his base.


It's the democratic way. It's not a game of chicken when one side doesn't care if they crash
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 15:14     Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DOJ needs to declare the debt limit unconstitutional and move on.


It's not a ridiculous argument

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, ... shall not be questioned. "


I sincerely hope Biden can navigate a way out of this that doesn’t involve giving House Republicans a bunch of easy wins. My dream is that he will stand up and say, “If the American people want to cut Social Security, they can elect a Republican House, send 60 Republicans to the Senate, and put a Republican in the White House. But it will *never* happen on my watch!”

(Thunderous applause.)

I fear, however, he will pathetically negotiate against himself and get rolled and utterly demoralize his base.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 15:02     Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Watch the US default and the subsequent financial freak out. It might just be the devastating blow the GOP needs to become irrelevant. We don’t want anarchist QAnon GOP in government. They don’t know how to do anything.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 14:47     Subject: Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:DOJ needs to declare the debt limit unconstitutional and move on.


It's not a ridiculous argument

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, ... shall not be questioned. "
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 14:44     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here we go, folks.

“The Treasury Department on Friday said that it will begin “extraordinary measures” next week to prevent the United States government from defaulting on its payment obligations, as lawmakers in Washington prepare for a potentially devastating fiscal showdown.
In a letter to congressional officials, Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen said the administration would on Jan. 19 begin repurposing federal funds to extend the date by which the government will run out of money. Congress must pass a law raising the debt limit from its current total of $31.4 trillion or the Treasury can’t borrow any more, even to pay for spending lawmakers have already authorized.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/01/13/debt-limit-extraordinary-measures-treasury/


I sure wish Democrats had taken care of this during the lame duck period in December. But—for some mystifying reason—they didn’t. Now we get to watch Joe Biden prostrate himself and agree to draconian cuts in Social Security in order to appease Republicans and avoid catastrophe.


Or he just doesn't agree to any cuts because he doesn't want seniors to starve, the whole government grind to a halt, and the GOP takes the blame.


Better yet, every republican now that any member can vote to out him, so they can all take the blame
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 14:30     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here we go, folks.

“The Treasury Department on Friday said that it will begin “extraordinary measures” next week to prevent the United States government from defaulting on its payment obligations, as lawmakers in Washington prepare for a potentially devastating fiscal showdown.
In a letter to congressional officials, Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen said the administration would on Jan. 19 begin repurposing federal funds to extend the date by which the government will run out of money. Congress must pass a law raising the debt limit from its current total of $31.4 trillion or the Treasury can’t borrow any more, even to pay for spending lawmakers have already authorized.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/01/13/debt-limit-extraordinary-measures-treasury/


I sure wish Democrats had taken care of this during the lame duck period in December. But—for some mystifying reason—they didn’t. Now we get to watch Joe Biden prostrate himself and agree to draconian cuts in Social Security in order to appease Republicans and avoid catastrophe.


Or he just doesn't agree to any cuts because he doesn't want seniors to starve, the whole government grind to a halt, and the GOP takes the blame.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 14:11     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here we go, folks.

“The Treasury Department on Friday said that it will begin “extraordinary measures” next week to prevent the United States government from defaulting on its payment obligations, as lawmakers in Washington prepare for a potentially devastating fiscal showdown.
In a letter to congressional officials, Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen said the administration would on Jan. 19 begin repurposing federal funds to extend the date by which the government will run out of money. Congress must pass a law raising the debt limit from its current total of $31.4 trillion or the Treasury can’t borrow any more, even to pay for spending lawmakers have already authorized.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/01/13/debt-limit-extraordinary-measures-treasury/


I sure wish Democrats had taken care of this during the lame duck period in December. But—for some mystifying reason—they didn’t. Now we get to watch Joe Biden prostrate himself and agree to draconian cuts in Social Security in order to appease Republicans and avoid catastrophe.

Manchin and Sinema weren’t on board IIRC.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 13:23     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:Here we go, folks.

“The Treasury Department on Friday said that it will begin “extraordinary measures” next week to prevent the United States government from defaulting on its payment obligations, as lawmakers in Washington prepare for a potentially devastating fiscal showdown.
In a letter to congressional officials, Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen said the administration would on Jan. 19 begin repurposing federal funds to extend the date by which the government will run out of money. Congress must pass a law raising the debt limit from its current total of $31.4 trillion or the Treasury can’t borrow any more, even to pay for spending lawmakers have already authorized.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/01/13/debt-limit-extraordinary-measures-treasury/


I sure wish Democrats had taken care of this during the lame duck period in December. But—for some mystifying reason—they didn’t. Now we get to watch Joe Biden prostrate himself and agree to draconian cuts in Social Security in order to appease Republicans and avoid catastrophe.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2023 13:22     Subject: Re:Republicans and the debt ceiling
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that defaulting on debt does not “save taxpayers $$.” This is money already spent.


There is no defaulting being discussed. What would happen is the Treasury would not be allowed to borrow beyond a certain limit, so some spending would have to be withheld.
There would be an issue of having to pay debt that rolls over, and then they are not allowed to borrow again to make those payments.


That is not how it works. The debt ceiling is about existing obligations being incurred, and refusing to raise the limit does not somehow magically make the spending and obligations vanish. It only means you can't pay for them, which means DEFAULT. And when the government defaults, its rating gets degraded, and interest on loans and obligations goes up causing debt service to increase. It's a move that would not stop anything, it would only place America in more debt and make the country more dysfunctional.