Anonymous wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies. We’ll she see if she has the cajones to communicate this directly to my FIL rather than telling it to DH, but then caveating “but don’t tell FIL.”

Cajones are drawers. I think the word you're looking for is 'cojones'. Gross cultural appropriation, especially when you can't even get it right.

Here's an article that has a whole paragraph on cojones if you don't understand why you're wrong to use it - https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/05/05/cinco-de-mayo-americans-speak-mock-spanish-heres-why-thats-problem/

And let your DH and FIL figure this out.

Anonymous wrote:At 85 and 89 the whole thing is a house of cards OP. And it's a wakeup call for everyone involved. So there is some good news here (or at least important information you're getting):
- the current injury is just a broken arm. It could be a lot worse.
- your FIL is lucid and able to make decisions for himself
- your FIL is currently in a safe, well supervised setting
- your FIL has a home of his own
- his partner has clear boundaries - she's telling you her limits, not dodging the conversation
- you can plan for next steps, longer term, etc... and your FIL can be part of that planning. You're not in an imminently life threatening crisis. He can also talk directly w/ his partner - they are adults and you can expect them to take some responsibility for communicating w/ each other (of course, presuming cognitive capabilities).

The bad news is that the partner is not accepting responsibility, but the reality is that even if she were willing to support someone else's convalescence, an 85 year old woman cannot be expected to be a safe, long-term solution for caregiving. No matter the relationship between them or the individual desires to help (or not).

Safety first. And expecting an 85 year old woman to care for an 89 year old man, is not a great plan. Regardless of what anyone does or does not want.

+1
Caregiving can be physically demanding, and you can really hurt yourself trying to manage someone if you're not strong enough. She can provide various kinds of assistance (and I'm not sure that we should assume that she won't) without him living in her home. But expecting two people in their late 80s to be each other's primary caregivers at this point is not a good plan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If roles were reversed I am sure he would be there for her.

Maybe. Maybe not. This lady is 85 and while you say your FIL has been there for her in somewhat similar circumstances, for one I'm sure he's probably larger than she is. My mother's second husband was much older and while she did nurse him til the end, even in her late 60s it was very, very physically difficult for her to deal with him once he really began to fail simply due to his size. And that's without accounting for the emotional strain.

I'm with others who say be glad they have had so many good years together AND kept their accounts separate, which they undoubtedly did at least in part because they wanted to respect each other's kids' inheritances. Two people in their late 80s or 90s can't really be expected to take care of each other the way younger people can, that's just the reality of the situation.

+1
They have separate finances and homes, which is probably to their adult children's benefit. You sort of can't eat your cake and have it, too. But in any case, a woman in her late 80s is not a plan for caregiving, no matter how much she is or isn't willing to do.

Anonymous wrote:My FIL, 89, has been in a committed long term relationship with a woman his age for close to twenty years. They have kept their finances separate and maintain separate homes in the same town, splitting between both, although recently FIL has been staying primarily at her place and going to his place every day as if it’s an office. They have had an active life together: travel, book clubs, concerts, visits and holidays with children from both families. She additionally is a dedicated musician, has been deeply involved as a board member in a local organization. They are both quite cerebral and opinionated, and all the children agree that they have been really good for each other over the years. Her health has been generally good for her 85+ age, and FIL nursed her through hip and knee replacements. He has prostate cancer (under treatment) and finally got hearing aids.

Well a week ago FIL slipped on some ice and badly broke his arm, landing in the hospital. DH flew across the country to be with his father. FIL fully expects to go back to her home, where they’ve primarily been living, when he’s released, but his partner has told my husband that she doesn’t want him to return there; she wants him to convalesce at his place. When pressed, she said their relationship is based on a certain amount of distance and independence between them and she doesn’t want that to change. I get it, they’re not married, but I’m kind of gobsmacked. If roles were reversed I am sure he would be there for her.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? How did it play out? They live in a smallish city out West. It’s not the boonies, but it’s also not DC, and neither has children who live locally.

She's over 85; it's not realistic to expect her to be a live-in caregiver. Presumably, they made the considered decision not to get married, and this is one of the completely foreseeable implications of that decision. I don't read this as her saying she's not going to have anything to do with him, or never visit him or help him out, just that she doesn't want him moving in. They might have been spending a lot of time at her place, but he has his own house.

And she needs to tell your FIL that herself. This is not your relationship to manage.

At 85 and 89 the whole thing is a house of cards OP. And it's a wakeup call for everyone involved. So there is some good news here (or at least important information you're getting):
- the current injury is just a broken arm. It could be a lot worse.
- your FIL is lucid and able to make decisions for himself
- your FIL is currently in a safe, well supervised setting
- your FIL has a home of his own
- his partner has clear boundaries - she's telling you her limits, not dodging the conversation
- you can plan for next steps, longer term, etc... and your FIL can be part of that planning. You're not in an imminently life threatening crisis. He can also talk directly w/ his partner - they are adults and you can expect them to take some responsibility for communicating w/ each other (of course, presuming cognitive capabilities).

The bad news is that the partner is not accepting responsibility, but the reality is that even if she were willing to support someone else's convalescence, an 85 year old woman cannot be expected to be a safe, long-term solution for caregiving. No matter the relationship between them or the individual desires to help (or not).

Safety first. And expecting an 85 year old woman to care for an 89 year old man, is not a great plan. Regardless of what anyone does or does not want.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies. We’ll she see if she has the cajones to communicate this directly to my FIL rather than telling it to DH, but then caveating “but don’t tell FIL.”

Wow. She’s your elder and communicating both a real concern for herself and sensitivity to her partner’s feelings. Clearly you see her as more useful to your agenda than a human being

Caring for my ailing MIL is what slowly did my FIL in, and she was ten years younger than him and she’s still kicking, relying on nurses now.

OP - At 89. you and DH should assume that FIL will not just "bounce right back," and your DH should encourage his father to look at CCRC at least as a possible site to choose an independent living unit now while he is healthy and of sound mind, and even there arrange for some additional in unit support for dressing/bathing and overnight for a time. The other option will be to hire an agency that can provide a variety of different services he will need in the short term from your description such as: medication/possible wound management, personal care in bathing & shaving and dressing, meal prep as you need two arms working to safely even just heat up or microwave, shopping for food & errands, driving to PT once any in-home visits end, laundry and home cleaning. If you are going to try in-home, I would focus on coverage at night as it is unlikely your FIL can safely manage getting out of bed to use the bathroom alone.

If DH wants to give Dad the best chance to be able to return to his home, I would have him work to see if FIL could go to a skilled rehab or place with short-term assisted living and rehab so that he would have many of the needed services at hand. I believe saying that Dad could not safely be at home on his own might be able to get Medicare to pay for some of such a stay. But again, if he has the funds a CCRC might be the best place now and long term. Who knows he might also find he can meet more than one woman in her mid-80s to do things with and enjoy his life with. Unfortunately, FIL and his partner never had "the talk" about how they might handle a serious illness, serious injury or memory issues so that realistic decisions could have been made for both of their benefits. Married or not, you can see how easily two folks in their mid to late 80s can both go downhill together with the primary caregiver often going first>

She does not want to be his caretaker. She views that as your job. She is seeking companionship but will not assume responsibility for him when he declines. It was good while it lasted.

His children need to take full responsibility going-forward for his care, for his future arrangements as if she has never existed. If she provides help/love/support that's a bonus - which you can not expect. Or ask for.

Anonymous wrote:If roles were reversed I am sure he would be there for her.

Maybe. Maybe not. This lady is 85 and while you say your FIL has been there for her in somewhat similar circumstances, for one I'm sure he's probably larger than she is. My mother's second husband was much older and while she did nurse him til the end, even in her late 60s it was very, very physically difficult for her to deal with him once he really began to fail simply due to his size. And that's without accounting for the emotional strain.

I'm with others who say be glad they have had so many good years together AND kept their accounts separate, which they undoubtedly did at least in part because they wanted to respect each other's kids' inheritances. Two people in their late 80s or 90s can't really be expected to take care of each other the way younger people can, that's just the reality of the situation.

She is wise.

Wow, talk about resentment and anger. Projecting much? I get where she is coming from — my mom divorced my stepfather in her 70s and it was the smartest thing she ever did for a host of reasons. I’m just surprised by the lack of communication thus far.

Maybe she doesn’t want to be in charge of his rehab, etc. There is a reason they aren’t married.

If he is on painkillers, she might also be concerned that she doesn't have the strength to deal with a situation if he falls.

She may be seeing other indications that he will need more help. Is there a rehab place that is attached to an independent/assisted living center nearby?