Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:50
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.
How is it weird? You were either taught proper English, or not. This should have been taught starting in the 1st grade. Even if you hear it at home or "in the streets" what you're learning in school trumps all of that.
Hahahaha no. "proper English," ha. Just because some dudes started taking advantage of the social-climbing new middle class after the industrial revolution doesn't mean there is a proper or improper English. Yes, the gatekeeping academia of times past has essentially controlled the rules for writing and we basically have to follow them if we want to get respect (this is called respectability politics, by the way), but that is an inherently subjective standard.
Also, yes English is absolutely weird. English is a bizarre amalgamation of various languages and doesn't have the much simpler origins of languages like Spanish.
Do you feel that spelling should also be a creative enterprise with no fixed rules? What about math?
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:41
Subject: Re:Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Grammar isn’t really taught anymore in public school.
Grammar, written expression, handwriting, self-control, ability to follow the rules... some children are unable to learn these skills. Some educators think it's easier to just not try to teach them.
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:37
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.
How is it weird? You were either taught proper English, or not. This should have been taught starting in the 1st grade. Even if you hear it at home or "in the streets" what you're learning in school trumps all of that.
You don't think it's weird that the verb "to go" turns into "went" for past tense and then "gone" for past participle? How do you get "went" from "go"?
+1
Or about this, from grammerly.com?
"Lay means to place or put (Lay that here). The word lay is also the past tense form of the sense of lie that means to recline, as in I lay in bed yesterday. Lay down can mean to place down (Lay down your bags), but it can also be the past tense of lie down, as in I lay down for a few hours. A nonstandard but common use of lay is to mean the same thing as the present tense of lie, as in I just want to lay in bed for a few more minutes or I laid down for a few hours. It’s best to avoid this use (and the confusion it can cause) in formal contexts."
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:33
Subject: Re:Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Grammar isn’t really taught anymore in public school.
My 6th grader has sentences to diagram this weekend. Personally, I consider think that is teaching grammar.
Good writing instruction is a much, much better way to teach grammar. When you have to write it correctly, in context, it really sticks in your head.
Womp womp.
But I will say that plenty of people who have standard American English grammar in writing speak in their colloquial accents. I suppose that's code-switching? Anyway, while you might learn to use standard, prescribed grammar in formal writing, you can still use your colloquial grammar in speech and informal writing and I'm of the persuasion that there is nothing wrong with that.
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:31
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.
How is it weird? You were either taught proper English, or not. This should have been taught starting in the 1st grade. Even if you hear it at home or "in the streets" what you're learning in school trumps all of that.
You don't think it's weird that the verb "to go" turns into "went" for past tense and then "gone" for past participle? How do you get "went" from "go"?
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:30
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
I picture OP speaking in a Mid-Atlantic accent.
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:28
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
I give up....
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:27
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.
Op - maybe. Dh says it and he has an mba. But somewhere along the line something very grave occurred where no one stopped him and said what IS that? And it feels weird to constantly correct him as an adult
I did an online test and it asked things like whether you say "should have" vs "should of". A grammar book might tell you the right way to say this, but the test showed that there are regional variations. The language is always evolving. I saw the word "brung" yesterday, which is actually more logical that brought - maybe that will become a thing over time.
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:24
Subject: Re:Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Grammar isn’t really taught anymore in public school.
My 6th grader has sentences to diagram this weekend. Personally, I consider think that is teaching grammar.
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:22
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Terrible public school education
Any sort of discipline at all isn’t in the public schools. Moved to MOCO for the privates
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:19
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Terrible public school education
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:17
Subject: Re:Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Grammar isn’t really taught anymore in public school.
Anonymous
01/08/2023 10:14
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.
How is it weird? You were either taught proper English, or not. This should have been taught starting in the 1st grade. Even if you hear it at home or "in the streets" what you're learning in school trumps all of that.
What is proper English? The English would argue it’s the King’s English which isn’t taught anywhere in the US.
I just said what it was - it's what's taught to you starting in the 1st grade. Pay attention.
No offense, but your knowledge of English is very shallow. You should really learn more about it, it's fascinating! It's one of my big interests, actually. I could suggest some books, but here are some wikipedia articles to get you started (and the information there is cited so you can look at where they are getting their information if you want to go more in-depth with it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_English
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accents_of_English
Anonymous
01/08/2023 09:57
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.
How is it weird? You were either taught proper English, or not. This should have been taught starting in the 1st grade. Even if you hear it at home or "in the streets" what you're learning in school trumps all of that.
What is proper English? The English would argue it’s the King’s English which isn’t taught anywhere in the US.
I just said what it was - it's what's taught to you starting in the 1st grade. Pay attention.
But taught where and by what authority is it proper?
Anonymous
01/08/2023 09:54
Subject: Why do so many ppl say ‘should have went’ instead of ‘should have gone’?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.
How is it weird? You were either taught proper English, or not. This should have been taught starting in the 1st grade. Even if you hear it at home or "in the streets" what you're learning in school trumps all of that.
Hahahaha no. "proper English," ha. Just because some dudes started taking advantage of the social-climbing new middle class after the industrial revolution doesn't mean there is a proper or improper English. Yes, the gatekeeping academia of times past has essentially controlled the rules for writing and we basically have to follow them if we want to get respect (this is called respectability politics, by the way), but that is an inherently subjective standard.
Also, yes English is absolutely weird. English is a bizarre amalgamation of various languages and doesn't have the much simpler origins of languages like Spanish.