Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 17:55     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Interesting. You seem to have very little understanding of either FOIA or that any litigation requires all levels of attorney to do some degree of doc review.


I'm a DP and I'm not sure what your point is. If my work is implicated in a litigation hold or FOIA request, I go through my emails and drafts for responsive documents and copy them to the designated folder. Then I'm done. Did I review documents? Sure. Did I do what is commonly understood as document review? No.


Maybe it is because I work for a law enforcement agency, but where I work, the program office (me, as their attorney) gets to look over what the FOIA attorney proposes redacting, with the agents. So a total of 3 groups (FOIA attorney, agents, program attorney) looks it over.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 17:53     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project.


I had to cover FOIA while our regular FOIA attorney was out on paternity leave. It was awful. The thing is, it isn't actually easy, just very dull. It's hard to determine how the exemptions should apply at times, because they often involve balancing interests. And people at the agency get incredibly angry if you don't want to redact something that they want to. I did not like it at all.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 14:47     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what FOIA is. I also didn't know attorney advisors did document review. I'm an attorney advisor, and the work I do is important to many individuals. I thought the person was dissing attorney advisors by likening their workload to document review.


FOIA = Freedom of Information Act

Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project. I've done document review, and it's just literally sitting at a computer all day clicking through documents. Sometimes you can't listen to music. Sometimes you have to go talk to the paralegals who are your supervisors and request a new batch of documents. You get all the people sitting around you who regret going to law school. If someone catches you talking too much to the people around you, you're all given a new seating chart and put next to people your supervisors do not believe you will talk to.

I am an attorney advisor, and I write most of the day. Sure, I "review" documents, but that's so I know what to write about. I am currently on detail right now. On detail, I do not write, and I absolutely love what I am doing. I'm on the government side of individual cases where I help citizens with the stuff I am used to writing about. Basically, I help them prepare their cases and move them forward. Nothing about my job seems like document review, so I was confused as to why someone would describe it as document review.


Interesting. You seem to have very little understanding of either FOIA or that any litigation requires all levels of attorney to do some degree of doc review.


I'm a DP and I'm not sure what your point is. If my work is implicated in a litigation hold or FOIA request, I go through my emails and drafts for responsive documents and copy them to the designated folder. Then I'm done. Did I review documents? Sure. Did I do what is commonly understood as document review? No.


PP acts like doc review is only first level, contract attorney work. Anyone who seriously litigates, beyond the relationship partner, is going to be doing some level of doc review.


Most Fed attorneys do not litigate.

And while the thread is about Feds, I'd add that many/most private sector attorneys do not litigate. I dont just mean "don't appear in court," I mean "have nothing to do with litigation at all."

Litigators just assume their experience is universal and they know all the forms of lawyer work that exist.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 14:13     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what FOIA is. I also didn't know attorney advisors did document review. I'm an attorney advisor, and the work I do is important to many individuals. I thought the person was dissing attorney advisors by likening their workload to document review.


FOIA = Freedom of Information Act

Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project. I've done document review, and it's just literally sitting at a computer all day clicking through documents. Sometimes you can't listen to music. Sometimes you have to go talk to the paralegals who are your supervisors and request a new batch of documents. You get all the people sitting around you who regret going to law school. If someone catches you talking too much to the people around you, you're all given a new seating chart and put next to people your supervisors do not believe you will talk to.

I am an attorney advisor, and I write most of the day. Sure, I "review" documents, but that's so I know what to write about. I am currently on detail right now. On detail, I do not write, and I absolutely love what I am doing. I'm on the government side of individual cases where I help citizens with the stuff I am used to writing about. Basically, I help them prepare their cases and move them forward. Nothing about my job seems like document review, so I was confused as to why someone would describe it as document review.


Interesting. You seem to have very little understanding of either FOIA or that any litigation requires all levels of attorney to do some degree of doc review.


I'm a DP and I'm not sure what your point is. If my work is implicated in a litigation hold or FOIA request, I go through my emails and drafts for responsive documents and copy them to the designated folder. Then I'm done. Did I review documents? Sure. Did I do what is commonly understood as document review? No.


PP acts like doc review is only first level, contract attorney work. Anyone who seriously litigates, beyond the relationship partner, is going to be doing some level of doc review.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 12:49     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:It basically means it’s a non-litigation attorney role but the actual tasks can vary greatly depending on agency, department, and exact job function.

This. It’s an old OPM distinction. It basically means “not a trial attorney” and applies to nearly everyone at agencies that don’t have litigation authority.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 12:40     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what FOIA is. I also didn't know attorney advisors did document review. I'm an attorney advisor, and the work I do is important to many individuals. I thought the person was dissing attorney advisors by likening their workload to document review.


FOIA = Freedom of Information Act

Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project. I've done document review, and it's just literally sitting at a computer all day clicking through documents. Sometimes you can't listen to music. Sometimes you have to go talk to the paralegals who are your supervisors and request a new batch of documents. You get all the people sitting around you who regret going to law school. If someone catches you talking too much to the people around you, you're all given a new seating chart and put next to people your supervisors do not believe you will talk to.

I am an attorney advisor, and I write most of the day. Sure, I "review" documents, but that's so I know what to write about. I am currently on detail right now. On detail, I do not write, and I absolutely love what I am doing. I'm on the government side of individual cases where I help citizens with the stuff I am used to writing about. Basically, I help them prepare their cases and move them forward. Nothing about my job seems like document review, so I was confused as to why someone would describe it as document review.


Interesting. You seem to have very little understanding of either FOIA or that any litigation requires all levels of attorney to do some degree of doc review.


I'm a DP and I'm not sure what your point is. If my work is implicated in a litigation hold or FOIA request, I go through my emails and drafts for responsive documents and copy them to the designated folder. Then I'm done. Did I review documents? Sure. Did I do what is commonly understood as document review? No.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 12:17     Subject: Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Don’t you people get it? The legal profession is a caste system. Document reviewers are the untouchables and nobody wants people to associate them with document review even if they don’t do document review
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 11:40     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what FOIA is. I also didn't know attorney advisors did document review. I'm an attorney advisor, and the work I do is important to many individuals. I thought the person was dissing attorney advisors by likening their workload to document review.


FOIA = Freedom of Information Act

Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project. I've done document review, and it's just literally sitting at a computer all day clicking through documents. Sometimes you can't listen to music. Sometimes you have to go talk to the paralegals who are your supervisors and request a new batch of documents. You get all the people sitting around you who regret going to law school. If someone catches you talking too much to the people around you, you're all given a new seating chart and put next to people your supervisors do not believe you will talk to.

I am an attorney advisor, and I write most of the day. Sure, I "review" documents, but that's so I know what to write about. I am currently on detail right now. On detail, I do not write, and I absolutely love what I am doing. I'm on the government side of individual cases where I help citizens with the stuff I am used to writing about. Basically, I help them prepare their cases and move them forward. Nothing about my job seems like document review, so I was confused as to why someone would describe it as document review.


Interesting. You seem to have very little understanding of either FOIA or that any litigation requires all levels of attorney to do some degree of doc review.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 11:27     Subject: Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:To be honest, I think most, if not all, attorney jobs are document review jobs as they involve reviewing documents, whether it be evidence files, opposing briefs, contracts, etc.


Yes, attorney jobs involve...reading.


Yeah I think there's that part of lawyers that imagined themselves litigating in a courtroom when they went to law school, but the reality is... doc review, research, and constant reading. Even good litigators spend the bulk of their time reading.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 11:25     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what FOIA is. I also didn't know attorney advisors did document review. I'm an attorney advisor, and the work I do is important to many individuals. I thought the person was dissing attorney advisors by likening their workload to document review.


FOIA = Freedom of Information Act

Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project. I've done document review, and it's just literally sitting at a computer all day clicking through documents. Sometimes you can't listen to music. Sometimes you have to go talk to the paralegals who are your supervisors and request a new batch of documents. You get all the people sitting around you who regret going to law school. If someone catches you talking too much to the people around you, you're all given a new seating chart and put next to people your supervisors do not believe you will talk to.

I am an attorney advisor, and I write most of the day. Sure, I "review" documents, but that's so I know what to write about. I am currently on detail right now. On detail, I do not write, and I absolutely love what I am doing. I'm on the government side of individual cases where I help citizens with the stuff I am used to writing about. Basically, I help them prepare their cases and move them forward. Nothing about my job seems like document review, so I was confused as to why someone would describe it as document review.


I'm honestly shocked that a federal employee wouldn't know what FOIA is. It seems negligent on the part of your FOIA officer.

FOIA responses are hundreds to tens of thousands of pages long (and we have 20 days to get them done!). Yes it's very much like doc review for the attorney-advisors. The processors putting FOIAs together have a much more interesting job working with SMEs, requesters and such.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 11:20     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what FOIA is. I also didn't know attorney advisors did document review. I'm an attorney advisor, and the work I do is important to many individuals. I thought the person was dissing attorney advisors by likening their workload to document review.


FOIA = Freedom of Information Act

Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project. I've done document review, and it's just literally sitting at a computer all day clicking through documents. Sometimes you can't listen to music. Sometimes you have to go talk to the paralegals who are your supervisors and request a new batch of documents. You get all the people sitting around you who regret going to law school. If someone catches you talking too much to the people around you, you're all given a new seating chart and put next to people your supervisors do not believe you will talk to.

I am an attorney advisor, and I write most of the day. Sure, I "review" documents, but that's so I know what to write about. I am currently on detail right now. On detail, I do not write, and I absolutely love what I am doing. I'm on the government side of individual cases where I help citizens with the stuff I am used to writing about. Basically, I help them prepare their cases and move them forward. Nothing about my job seems like document review, so I was confused as to why someone would describe it as document review.
I’m a doc reviewer and can’t get hired to do foia
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 11:07     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:Every attorney in my agency is called an attorney advisor, regardless of specialty or supervisory status. I'm in regulatory law and have never done FOIA or any kind of document review.


+1 every non-supervisory attorney at my agency is an attorney-advisor - if doesn't matter if you do litigation, rulemakings, FOIA, enforcement
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 10:54     Subject: Re:Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what FOIA is. I also didn't know attorney advisors did document review. I'm an attorney advisor, and the work I do is important to many individuals. I thought the person was dissing attorney advisors by likening their workload to document review.


FOIA = Freedom of Information Act

Okay, responding to a Freedom of Information Act request doesn't seem like it would be anything like a document review project. I've done document review, and it's just literally sitting at a computer all day clicking through documents. Sometimes you can't listen to music. Sometimes you have to go talk to the paralegals who are your supervisors and request a new batch of documents. You get all the people sitting around you who regret going to law school. If someone catches you talking too much to the people around you, you're all given a new seating chart and put next to people your supervisors do not believe you will talk to.

I am an attorney advisor, and I write most of the day. Sure, I "review" documents, but that's so I know what to write about. I am currently on detail right now. On detail, I do not write, and I absolutely love what I am doing. I'm on the government side of individual cases where I help citizens with the stuff I am used to writing about. Basically, I help them prepare their cases and move them forward. Nothing about my job seems like document review, so I was confused as to why someone would describe it as document review.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 09:58     Subject: Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:To be honest, I think most, if not all, attorney jobs are document review jobs as they involve reviewing documents, whether it be evidence files, opposing briefs, contracts, etc.


In my experience "doc review" has a specific connotation, though. It's usually referring when people go through piles and piles of documents looking for specific instances or data. It's usually bconsidered grunt work. In general when someone is talking about doc review they don't mean reviewing contracts or briefs.


I'm not an attorney advisor but I did a detail to my agency's OCC. I spent 2 months doing legit doc review with DOJ's doc review software. I needed a break from my workload but I didn't know I was signing up for 2 months of clicking a mouse through thousands of emails and documents, although I guess that's not the worst thing in the world if you get GS 15 pay.
Anonymous
Post 01/04/2023 09:13     Subject: Attorney-Advisor Equals Document Reviewer?
Anonymous wrote:To be honest, I think most, if not all, attorney jobs are document review jobs as they involve reviewing documents, whether it be evidence files, opposing briefs, contracts, etc.


Yes, attorney jobs involve...reading.