Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 19:04     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:This post hits home! I’ve find it really hard to mentor students. I totally understand wanting to do fulfilling work. I like my job. It’s good work and I help people. AND, I like that I can afford to make 3-4 international vacations a year and enjoy fine dining etc.

I make $187k + bonus (single. No kids and I’m 38). Along the way, I took some jobs that were not great, but gave me skills I need to keep progressing. Those jobs (ie budget analyst) sucked, but I chose to see the positive and knew it was just a stop along the way.

My sister refused to “sell her soul.” She make $60k with a kid and struggles. She can’t do ANYTHING. Even a pedicure is a tough spend for her. She has to go on a 18 month payment plan for a 4 day vacation at some 3 star resort in the Bahamas or our dad pays. More often than not, dad pays.


Just curious, what is your job and what has your career path looked like? Also, just curious, why do you need a high paying job if you don’t have any kids?
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 19:03     Subject: Re:Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:Op, I am glad that you were straightforward and told her publishing jobs are for rich kids. I am in my late 40' s and my peer group were not given such truths. Many of my peers naively chose those routes. We didn't know that nonprofit, museum, etc jobs are for people with trust funds.




This reminds me of this article:

https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/class-rage-anger-wealthy-rich-friends.html
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 19:02     Subject: Re:Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:The student's response reflects an uninformed and facile perspective. Taking pride in what one does, doing it better than it has been done previously, being creative, adding value in return for compensation, being a valuable colleague to others, becoming an effective and decent manager, are all possible in a wide range of environments, no matter the nature of the employer. A mistaken perspective that only certain professions can possibly be "soul-satisfying" demonstrates a narrow perspective unworthy of someone with a quality liberal arts education. One can be an ethical, good actor anywhere.



Even at Mckinsey?
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 18:45     Subject: Re:Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
The student's response reflects an uninformed and facile perspective. Taking pride in what one does, doing it better than it has been done previously, being creative, adding value in return for compensation, being a valuable colleague to others, becoming an effective and decent manager, are all possible in a wide range of environments, no matter the nature of the employer. A mistaken perspective that only certain professions can possibly be "soul-satisfying" demonstrates a narrow perspective unworthy of someone with a quality liberal arts education. One can be an ethical, good actor anywhere.

Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 18:35     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.


That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)


This. I was like this in college and just after. The idea that anyone might need MORE than 100k to live comfortably and raise a family would just have made me laugh in disbelief (and my spouse in his 20s, and probably my parents too).
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 18:26     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.


That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)


+1

Let me guess, she’s a scholarship kid at an Ivy from a rural area, right?


+2. College age kids have no idea what adult life really costs.
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 18:26     Subject: Re:Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Op, I am glad that you were straightforward and told her publishing jobs are for rich kids. I am in my late 40' s and my peer group were not given such truths. Many of my peers naively chose those routes. We didn't know that nonprofit, museum, etc jobs are for people with trust funds.


Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 18:23     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:This post hits home! I’ve find it really hard to mentor students. I totally understand wanting to do fulfilling work. I like my job. It’s good work and I help people. AND, I like that I can afford to make 3-4 international vacations a year and enjoy fine dining etc.

I make $187k + bonus (single. No kids and I’m 38). Along the way, I took some jobs that were not great, but gave me skills I need to keep progressing. Those jobs (ie budget analyst) sucked, but I chose to see the positive and knew it was just a stop along the way.

My sister refused to “sell her soul.” She make $60k with a kid and struggles. She can’t do ANYTHING. Even a pedicure is a tough spend for her. She has to go on a 18 month payment plan for a 4 day vacation at some 3 star resort in the Bahamas or our dad pays. More often than not, dad pays.


I work at a nonprofit and several folks make more than $200k. You can have both.
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 18:12     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
This post hits home! I’ve find it really hard to mentor students. I totally understand wanting to do fulfilling work. I like my job. It’s good work and I help people. AND, I like that I can afford to make 3-4 international vacations a year and enjoy fine dining etc.

I make $187k + bonus (single. No kids and I’m 38). Along the way, I took some jobs that were not great, but gave me skills I need to keep progressing. Those jobs (ie budget analyst) sucked, but I chose to see the positive and knew it was just a stop along the way.

My sister refused to “sell her soul.” She make $60k with a kid and struggles. She can’t do ANYTHING. Even a pedicure is a tough spend for her. She has to go on a 18 month payment plan for a 4 day vacation at some 3 star resort in the Bahamas or our dad pays. More often than not, dad pays.
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 17:46     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.


That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)


+1

Let me guess, she’s a scholarship kid at an Ivy from a rural area, right?
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 17:41     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:Because the conversations about work are controlled by the wealthy/elite. When a plumber hires his nephew to work in his business, he talks about the hours and the money, not personal fulfillment. I grew up in a blue collar household, I knew that union jobs are great, but not because they provide fulfillment.


+1

Although it’s sad to see so much of work discourse dominated by the wealthy
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 16:43     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Because the conversations about work are controlled by the wealthy/elite. When a plumber hires his nephew to work in his business, he talks about the hours and the money, not personal fulfillment. I grew up in a blue collar household, I knew that union jobs are great, but not because they provide fulfillment.
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 15:35     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.


That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 15:21     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m 50. I’m finally at a point in my life where I can use the skills I learned in Big Tech in a do good company now. This is where I’ll stay until retirement. Without the skills or the best egg that I built up, this would not be possible. It would not have been an option at 22.


Ha! This is what most people want - a mentoring gig at a low professional wage supplemented by investment income. But, as you say, it's not really feasible at 20, especially when life's costs are ramping - getting married, buying a house, having children, saving for college and retirement. In essence, everyone wants a retirement gig - just enough foot in the work world that you have a platform, healthcare, and a wage, but little responsibility or stress.


mentoring is not work
Anonymous
Post 12/26/2022 15:20     Subject: Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you agree that the options you suggested are soul-sucking and depressing? It’s unclear whether your answer to her is, “yep, they are totally soul-sucking, but you gotta pay the bills, snowflake,” or, “actually, they aren’t what they sound, and here’s why!”

Personally I think there’s a lot of truth to the latter. I’ve found various aspects of my career that sound soul-sucking to a naive humanities major (as I was, too!) are actually fascinating and compelling. The best thing I can do for kids seeking advice is help them to see that.


+1 and sometimes whether or not a particular job is soul-sucking or makes you feel like you are contributing to society is more about the organization you do it for. Does the larger mission of that org help or hurt the world, in your opinion. Maybe you have to make some compromises on that early in your career to build up experience but getting to a place you can feel good about is definitely a reasonable goal.


It is most certainly not a reasonable goal. Only the wealthy can afford to take do-gooder NPO jobs.


That PP is saying it isn't just NGOs. To an individual, a corporation's overall goal may feel positive or important. And that helps with the day to day. I feel that way about my lawyer job at an F500. I like what the company does at a high level and a lot of the culture / messaging day to day that impacts my work.