Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Fix the current American Legion bridge.

"The fact is you just can't build your way out of congestion."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzCJzwrB_c

Or, if you prefer shorter and not Australian - "The thing we need to understand is induced demand."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7xzktBxgl0&t=516s

Love these kids with what appears to be masters degrees in internet urbanism memes. The idea that you’re posting YouTube links with the expectation of being taken seriously is hilarious.

You have to give the urbanists their memes because it’s all they have to show for their efforts.

Induced demand is a fun meme but we already the demand. If you want fewer cars on 270, turn back time and oppose crown and all of the other developments that aren’t close to transit or jobs.

Anonymous wrote:As generally a Maryland person, this brings me no joy to say: in order to get its economy back on track, Maryland needs a new bridge to Virginia. Nova is where all the new jobs are. And it’s just too hard to get to. People will shout “induced demand.” Yes, that’s exactly the point. More people going back and forth. (Also a quick look at the icc shows we are not always taking about bottleneck level traffic!)

No, in order to get its economy back on track Maryland needs more jobs so that fewer people have to cross the bridge. Our traffic problems start with Montgomery County’s anemic job growth. Fix that and you’ll fix traffic and housing.

Maybe it's time to start working on real alternatives. Another highway is not a real alternative.

From today's Washington Post

As the American Legion Bridge turns 60, its traffic woes draw scrutiny
Maryland officials are debating how to best relieve traffic congestion at the aging American Legion Bridge, one of the Beltway’s worst bottlenecks
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/12/29/american-legion-bridge-traffic/

Some notes:
From MD's new Governor Moore
“The governor-elect has been clear on the core priority to improve congestion in the region, including upgrading the aging American Legion Bridge,” Moore spokesman Carter Elliott IV said in a Dec. 22 statement.

MoCo executive Erlich wants it fixed and expanded but with federal highway funds, not tolls
Montgomery County Executive Marc Elrich (D), a vocal critic of Hogan’s plan, said he supports expanding the bridge and western part of the Beltway. However, he said, the work should be paid for with federal infrastructure funding, rather than private financing that would require charging tolls.

Alternatives? Nope.
AAA, some Washington-area business leaders and local officials continued to push for a second crossing upstream throughout the 1990s. The idea of a “techway” gained some traction in 2000, when then-Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.) clinched $2 million for a federal study....
But Wolf soon canceled the study amid fierce opposition, ignited after both advocates and opponents drew lines on maps showing where a new bridge might cross. The biggest hurdle: Any second crossing would need to connect to a new highway. That highway probably would cut through some of the region’s wealthiest neighborhoods, with multimillion dollar homes and a bucolic feel, on both sides of the Potomac. The Montgomery council also objected to any road through the county’s western agricultural preserve.
“I saw the maps and thought, ‘There goes the future of that project,’ ” Anderson (of AAA) recalled. “Whose mansions were you going to tear down — in Great Falls, Virginia, or Potomac, Maryland? The answer was neither.”
The idea hasn’t been seriously considered since.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Same as Elrich and the MoCo leadership -- do nothing.

Actually, Elrich did have a suggestion on how to relieve beltway congestion -- he suggested a campaign to tell people about taking the ICC as an alternative. I'm not making this up. As if people don't have GPS systems that can't already tell them to take it if it's faster.

Elrich has constantly been saying that we need to fix the bridge.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Convert the bridge to bike lanes?

Justin Wilson has entered the chat

MD current plan was only to widen the widest parts of 270 and to do it by taking away the currnet HOV lanes and turning them in to toll lanes. There would also no longer be shoulders.

Anonymous wrote:Why is it I can drive 8 hours north through PA and NY and not pay a single toll?

Because everyone pays for those roads, whether they use them or not.

Why is it I can drive 8 hours north through PA and NY and not pay a single toll?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Fix the current American Legion bridge.

"The fact is you just can't build your way out of congestion."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzCJzwrB_c

Or, if you prefer shorter and not Australian - "The thing we need to understand is induced demand."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7xzktBxgl0&t=516s

Thanks for posting these. They beautifully illustrate the point.

Anonymous wrote:As generally a Maryland person, this brings me no joy to say: in order to get its economy back on track, Maryland needs a new bridge to Virginia. Nova is where all the new jobs are. And it’s just too hard to get to. People will shout “induced demand.” Yes, that’s exactly the point. More people going back and forth. (Also a quick look at the icc shows we are not always taking about bottleneck level traffic!)

The ICC is tolled, at levels people complain about, which are still nowhere near high enough to cover the bond payments for the ICC. The ICC is also the reason why the Purple Line is being built by a "public-private partnership", because Maryland maxed out its borrowing to build the ICC. If you wanted to toll all of the Beltway and 270, that would definitely make a difference in traffic congestion.

Also no, more driving is not exactly the point. The region does not need more driving, and neither does the global climate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Same as Elrich and the MoCo leadership -- do nothing.

Actually, Elrich did have a suggestion on how to relieve beltway congestion -- he suggested a campaign to tell people about taking the ICC as an alternative. I'm not making this up. As if people don't have GPS systems that can't already tell them to take it if it's faster.

There are many options between Hogans plan and do nothing.

Anonymous wrote:As generally a Maryland person, this brings me no joy to say: in order to get its economy back on track, Maryland needs a new bridge to Virginia. Nova is where all the new jobs are. And it’s just too hard to get to. People will shout “induced demand.” Yes, that’s exactly the point. More people going back and forth. (Also a quick look at the icc shows we are not always taking about bottleneck level traffic!)

Maryland needs to get its economy back on track by ... paying $$$$$$$ to make it easier for Marylanders to drive to jobs in Virginia?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Fix the current American Legion bridge.

"The fact is you just can't build your way out of congestion."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzCJzwrB_c

Or, if you prefer shorter and not Australian - "The thing we need to understand is induced demand."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7xzktBxgl0&t=516s

The "induced demand" argument may hold in the long term, but the long term could be 50 years or more.

For example, the ICC opened more than 10 years ago. It's not clogged. Isn't it supposed to be, because of induced demand?

If adding lanes = traffic gets worse, then will reducing lanes = traffic gets better?

Adding lanes = more people driving more vehicles more. And yes, reducing lanes does = fewer people driving fewer vehicles less.

I-270 demonstrated the reality of induced demand within 10 years. The Katy Freeway demonstrated the reality of induced demand within 3 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Fix the current American Legion bridge.

"The fact is you just can't build your way out of congestion."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzCJzwrB_c

Or, if you prefer shorter and not Australian - "The thing we need to understand is induced demand."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7xzktBxgl0&t=516s

The "induced demand" argument may hold in the long term, but the long term could be 50 years or more.

For example, the ICC opened more than 10 years ago. It's not clogged. Isn't it supposed to be, because of induced demand?

If adding lanes = traffic gets worse, then will reducing lanes = traffic gets better?