Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:52     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 1590 on the first try. Also NMS We love that there are many candidates who go TO. It does not harm us or them.


Yep! Make the choice that works for you.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:51     Subject: Re:Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My prediction is that starting with this year’s ED, kids with test scores are going to start winning more seats, particularly at selective schools.


That has been the case for the past years as well. If you have two candidates and one submits a good score and one is test optional, reason suggests the first one gets the slot.


Except that with holistic review, you won’t have candidates exactly alike. There will be other factors.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:48     Subject: Re:Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My prediction is that starting with this year’s ED, kids with test scores are going to start winning more seats, particularly at selective schools.


That is already the case, one would be hard pressed to find a T20 school that accepted 40 percent or more students test optional.


Harvard's ALDC is about 40%
So that sounds about right.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:44     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
My kid scored 1590 on the first try. Also NMS We love that there are many candidates who go TO. It does not harm us or them.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:40     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am seeing recommendations that you should only submit your score if you are at or above the mean for the college.
The reason is that colleges want to look good in national stats, so they don't want students who will lower their numbers.

However, not every student will be at exactly the mean, so this means the average for that college will go up.
The next year, only students who score at or higher than that new higher average will be reporting their scores, producing a still higher average.
Pretty soon only 1600s will be reporting their scores. The colleges will be getting no information except for this small group.

How about if they are going to be test optional, the College Board reports the average for each college's acceptances and enrolled students in the aggregate?
That way you at least don't have this vicious cycle.


My conclusion from this set of facts is that the current advice to applicants is wrong-- you submit scores if you are in the upper half of their SAT averages a couple of years ago.


That would just slow down the cycle to the scores going up every two years.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:39     Subject: Re:Test optional is a disaster
The main people getting hurt with TO are the kids who are getting into colleges where they are not really prepared to do the work. I think the schools that have been TO longer, ie. pre- pandemic probably know what they are doing in terms of admissions with TO. I think some schools, not the top 10-20 schools but schools just below that ie. 20s- 40s may be accepting some test-optional students who are going to struggle academically. Also with covid, some of those same kids didn't get a great high school academic experience due to covid and again are not prepared for college-level academics. I would expect that the covid- effect will be resolved in the next 1-2 years but the TO thing may still be an issue.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:37     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:If you want to give your kid their best shot, have them prep for the test (I'm not saying to get a private tutor, but have them study using Khan Academy and take a lot of practice tests). If they get a high score, submit it. If they don't, consider test optional. But why would you cut off their possibility of getting a high score?

These tests get a bad rap. My junior has been studying (as described above) and her math skills have improved. These ideas that test prep is all useless tricks is hogwash. Prepping for the test improves your basic math and reading/grammar skills. Which is presumably a good thing.


My kid prepped and won’t end up with an amazing score but it filled the math content gaps really well and that’s made a difference at school.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:29     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
If you want to give your kid their best shot, have them prep for the test (I'm not saying to get a private tutor, but have them study using Khan Academy and take a lot of practice tests). If they get a high score, submit it. If they don't, consider test optional. But why would you cut off their possibility of getting a high score?

These tests get a bad rap. My junior has been studying (as described above) and her math skills have improved. These ideas that test prep is all useless tricks is hogwash. Prepping for the test improves your basic math and reading/grammar skills. Which is presumably a good thing.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:25     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Stop being dramatic. Lots of schools have been test option for 10+ years and are doing fine.


Yes, but most kids used to submit scores. That’s now changing and causing problems for admissions officers, like too many applicants and an inability to fairly judge student records. Tests are coming back.


Is that why Williams just extended three more years and Harvard is TO through 2030?


Williams is hard to get into and Harvard is impossible. Harvard will stay test optional forever. There is no incentive for them to be transparent. Most of the applicants just go right to the no pile.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:25     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Stop being dramatic. Lots of schools have been test option for 10+ years and are doing fine.


Yes, but most kids used to submit scores. That’s now changing and causing problems for admissions officers, like too many applicants and an inability to fairly judge student records. Tests are coming back.


AOs know how to do their jobs. We're going on year 3 of mass TO.


You’re right, and AO’s at selective schools are asking for the tests.


Uh...no they aren't.

MIT is just one selective niche techie school that went back.

Trust me.... Purdue doesn't count.

If any of the Ivies and Stanford go back THEN that would be significant.

Until then, don't hold your breath.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 20:18     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Stop being dramatic. Lots of schools have been test option for 10+ years and are doing fine.


Yes, but most kids used to submit scores. That’s now changing and causing problems for admissions officers, like too many applicants and an inability to fairly judge student records. Tests are coming back.


Is that why Williams just extended three more years and Harvard is TO through 2030?
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 19:36     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am seeing recommendations that you should only submit your score if you are at or above the mean for the college.
The reason is that colleges want to look good in national stats, so they don't want students who will lower their numbers.

However, not every student will be at exactly the mean, so this means the average for that college will go up.
The next year, only students who score at or higher than that new higher average will be reporting their scores, producing a still higher average.
Pretty soon only 1600s will be reporting their scores. The colleges will be getting no information except for this small group.

How about if they are going to be test optional, the College Board reports the average for each college's acceptances and enrolled students in the aggregate?
That way you at least don't have this vicious cycle.


My conclusion from this set of facts is that the current advice to applicants is wrong-- you submit scores if you are in the upper half of their SAT averages a couple of years ago.


I agree with this, seems consistent with what I’ve seen from acceptances thus far this year, on this this forum and among my child’s friends.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 19:32     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:I am seeing recommendations that you should only submit your score if you are at or above the mean for the college.
The reason is that colleges want to look good in national stats, so they don't want students who will lower their numbers.

However, not every student will be at exactly the mean, so this means the average for that college will go up.
The next year, only students who score at or higher than that new higher average will be reporting their scores, producing a still higher average.
Pretty soon only 1600s will be reporting their scores. The colleges will be getting no information except for this small group.

How about if they are going to be test optional, the College Board reports the average for each college's acceptances and enrolled students in the aggregate?
That way you at least don't have this vicious cycle.


My conclusion from this set of facts is that the current advice to applicants is wrong-- you submit scores if you are in the upper half of their SAT averages a couple of years ago.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 19:03     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:I am seeing recommendations that you should only submit your score if you are at or above the mean for the college.
The reason is that colleges want to look good in national stats, so they don't want students who will lower their numbers.

However, not every student will be at exactly the mean, so this means the average for that college will go up.
The next year, only students who score at or higher than that new higher average will be reporting their scores, producing a still higher average.
Pretty soon only 1600s will be reporting their scores. The colleges will be getting no information except for this small group.

How about if they are going to be test optional, the College Board reports the average for each college's acceptances and enrolled students in the aggregate?
That way you at least don't have this vicious cycle.


I agree, OP. Either accept tests or don't accept them. Optional is a gray area that is untenable. Add to that how unmotivated many teens are to study for a test that is "optional." And really, when you think of all the time and money spent on a test that is "optional", it's such a waste. I'd rather my DC spend his time study for school or doing an extracurricular or getting a job. Or cleaning his room and walking the dog.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2022 19:01     Subject: Test optional is a disaster
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Stop being dramatic. Lots of schools have been test option for 10+ years and are doing fine.


Yes, but most kids used to submit scores. That’s now changing and causing problems for admissions officers, like too many applicants and an inability to fairly judge student records. Tests are coming back.


AOs know how to do their jobs. We're going on year 3 of mass TO.


You’re right, and AO’s at selective schools are asking for the tests.