Anonymous
Post 12/04/2022 12:48     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a science class in a W high school where the average on the last test was 40%. The teacher allows corrections to raise the grades, but the most the average kid in the class will get is a C on this test.

There is a method to the teacher's approach, but it is clear that simply attending class and doing the assigned work does not prepare the students for the test. Would you approach the teacher about this situation?

You identified the problem right here. "Simply attending class" - how engaged are they? Are they taking notes? Are they asking questions? Are they thinking about the content? Students should be monitoring their own thinking and understanding of the content before, during, and after class, and they should be proactive in seeking help (textbook, video, teacher) when they don't understand something. "Doing assigned work" - again, are they thinking and actively engaged in the content? or are they just skimming and copying down notes, relying on peers to answer questions, and acting like a completed worksheet is the goal rather than a tool for gaining understanding. I've started giving open note, auto-graded, retake-able quizzes, based straight off of instructional worksheets so that students are held accountable to actually completing worksheets correctly and getting feedback on their understanding quickly. It's shocking how many students fail the first time around. They have many words on their papers, but no understanding of the meaning.

I'm a HS teacher and this problem has been growing over the years, and was exacerbated by virtual instruction and students passively watching lessons. Too many students don't understand that the purpose of school is to learn how to think. They are just focused on going through the process of school while missing the point. It's not the fault of the teacher that students are doing poorly. Test corrections are a good way for students to learn and very common in AP/IB science classes where there is a clear standard of achievement that students need to reach.



Thank you for this perfect response.
I teach HS science and half my kids are failing this year.
I am not sure what to do. But it is not enough just to come to class.
The kids who have regular attendance and who are engaged during class (take notes, ask and answer questions, do all the practice assignments without copying from a friend and study at home) are doing great. It is the kids, and it is a lot of them, who are practically sleepwalking through their day who are having trouble and they are unable to make the connection between actually being actively present in class and doing well despite me discussing the issue in class multiple times. The kids also seem thrown off by having to think and apply what they learn. Weak math skills is also exceedingly common and that becomes an issue in higher level science.

I hate the 50% rule and MCPS’ weak stance on cell phones. Both of these policies are hurting rather than helping our students. The early start time for high school is also terrible. If parents could actually see a live cam of first period in high school, they would be shocked


+1. Both when I taught math and when I was in grad school, I’d talk about treating a test like a performance or a game. You don’t listen to a piece of music and then expect to play it live. And you don’t hear a coach describe a play and then try it out in a game. I mean, you could, but most people wouldn’t be all that successful. Instead, you practice the piece over and over until you could do it on your sleep. Or you practice the play with your team over and over, so that when the coach calls it, all you have to do is execute.

You can do the same thing for tests by working your way as close as possible to test conditions while studying – so all you need to do is show up on the day and repeat what you’ve been doing. This is also a skill that will serve you super well in higher ed, at work, etc.
Anonymous
Post 12/03/2022 21:27     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
> MCPS’ weak stance on cell phones.

Are cellphones allowed to be used in class?

Anonymous
Post 12/02/2022 12:27     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a science class in a W high school where the average on the last test was 40%. The teacher allows corrections to raise the grades, but the most the average kid in the class will get is a C on this test.

There is a method to the teacher's approach, but it is clear that simply attending class and doing the assigned work does not prepare the students for the test. Would you approach the teacher about this situation?

You identified the problem right here. "Simply attending class" - how engaged are they? Are they taking notes? Are they asking questions? Are they thinking about the content? Students should be monitoring their own thinking and understanding of the content before, during, and after class, and they should be proactive in seeking help (textbook, video, teacher) when they don't understand something. "Doing assigned work" - again, are they thinking and actively engaged in the content? or are they just skimming and copying down notes, relying on peers to answer questions, and acting like a completed worksheet is the goal rather than a tool for gaining understanding. I've started giving open note, auto-graded, retake-able quizzes, based straight off of instructional worksheets so that students are held accountable to actually completing worksheets correctly and getting feedback on their understanding quickly. It's shocking how many students fail the first time around. They have many words on their papers, but no understanding of the meaning.

I'm a HS teacher and this problem has been growing over the years, and was exacerbated by virtual instruction and students passively watching lessons. Too many students don't understand that the purpose of school is to learn how to think. They are just focused on going through the process of school while missing the point. It's not the fault of the teacher that students are doing poorly. Test corrections are a good way for students to learn and very common in AP/IB science classes where there is a clear standard of achievement that students need to reach.



Thank you for this perfect response.
I teach HS science and half my kids are failing this year.
I am not sure what to do. But it is not enough just to come to class.
The kids who have regular attendance and who are engaged during class (take notes, ask and answer questions, do all the practice assignments without copying from a friend and study at home) are doing great. It is the kids, and it is a lot of them, who are practically sleepwalking through their day who are having trouble and they are unable to make the connection between actually being actively present in class and doing well despite me discussing the issue in class multiple times. The kids also seem thrown off by having to think and apply what they learn. Weak math skills is also exceedingly common and that becomes an issue in higher level science.

I hate the 50% rule and MCPS’ weak stance on cell phones. Both of these policies are hurting rather than helping our students. The early start time for high school is also terrible. If parents could actually see a live cam of first period in high school, they would be shocked
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2022 12:23     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There was one AP science teacher at my child's W school who was very, very tough. She expected kids to come in at 6:30 in the morning for review sessions. My understanding was that she was a very good teacher in that she knew her stuff, but some kids had a very tough time with her. Getting poor grades on her tests were pretty common but again, to get help she expected high school kids to make it into school ridiculously early in the morning. Not everyone has a ride to school before the buses start running etc.


eventually a kid who relies on bussing is going to have a parent complain to MCPS about a lack of access and bias and that will be the end of 6:30 sessions


Realistically, everyone at a W school could figure out a way to school whenever they want to.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2022 11:08     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:There was one AP science teacher at my child's W school who was very, very tough. She expected kids to come in at 6:30 in the morning for review sessions. My understanding was that she was a very good teacher in that she knew her stuff, but some kids had a very tough time with her. Getting poor grades on her tests were pretty common but again, to get help she expected high school kids to make it into school ridiculously early in the morning. Not everyone has a ride to school before the buses start running etc.


eventually a kid who relies on bussing is going to have a parent complain to MCPS about a lack of access and bias and that will be the end of 6:30 sessions
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2022 11:05     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
There was one AP science teacher at my child's W school who was very, very tough. She expected kids to come in at 6:30 in the morning for review sessions. My understanding was that she was a very good teacher in that she knew her stuff, but some kids had a very tough time with her. Getting poor grades on her tests were pretty common but again, to get help she expected high school kids to make it into school ridiculously early in the morning. Not everyone has a ride to school before the buses start running etc.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2022 06:29     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a science class in a W high school where the average on the last test was 40%. The teacher allows corrections to raise the grades, but the most the average kid in the class will get is a C on this test.

There is a method to the teacher's approach, but it is clear that simply attending class and doing the assigned work does not prepare the students for the test. Would you approach the teacher about this situation?


This makes sense to me. If my child didn’t understand the material, my first question would be are you asking questions. One of mine got her first D on a math test recently. We realize that she needs to memorize the formulas since they are available during classwork, but not on tests. Practice outside of class is key to math and foreign language.
Anonymous
Post 12/02/2022 05:45     Subject: Re:Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
I don't think it is fair to automatically jump on the teacher. Right now, in one of my classes, I have 50% of the class with F's. They don't study. They know every Friday we have a test. I have gone over study skills with them. We practice in class, etc. In that same group, I have two ELL's and students with an IEP. They are passing because they study. What excuse do the others have?

I am not heartless and I am concerned. I was thinking next week that I will make those students come to me at lunch to study. On the other hand, I wonder if that is enabling and they will come to expect all teachers to do that.

Many students and parents have this attitude that they don't need to put in any e extra work.
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 23:41     Subject: Re:Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:Tell your kid to study more next time. There are sooo many kids at our W school who just don’t care and don’t do the work. When they run into a hard class or a hard teacher, it’s always the teacher’s fault. Yes, some aren’t great. My DC has one this year who doesn’t teach well. DC goes online and learns material himself. And you know what, he does well on those tests that others fail. That’s life. Not everything will always be spoon fed.


Wow, your kid sounds amazing!
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 22:17     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
High schooler should discuss with the teacher. This happened a few times in two different classes for DC. I do think this has to be a teaching issue.
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 21:02     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s bad teaching if everybody flunks. If you approach anyone, let it be an administrator.

Depends. Maybe none of the kids decided to study. Maybe they were planning on just using the test corrections to bump up their grade. My kid (at a magnet) and their peers sometimes use this strategy.

I would let your kid handle it though. They are in HS. Not ES. They need to learn to advocate for themselves.


Classic what-about-ism.

It’s the teacher.

classic "every kid should get a trophy".

As I stated, lots of kids use the "correction" strategy to bump up their grades. They probably under estimated how difficult the exam was going to be.
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 20:25     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Approach the teacher to say what, exactly? “Your philosophy is wrong”?
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 20:24     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
This is a tough one. As a college prof at an elite u often discussed on this board, we are seeing student grades plummet on tests - they are much less capable after the pandemic. Seems that could be related, but no idea what to tell you. Good luck.
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 20:20     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
In my kid’s APES class, I think the averages on exams have been in the 60-70% range. But with all the other points on labs, etc. you can still get to an A or B. I think they’re trying to scare the kids into studying harder at the beginning. Worked on my kid. 40% is lower - does the 50% rule still apply? For my kid, test corrections were PP so they didn’t help grade at all.
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 20:05     Subject: Class Average on Exam 40% - WWYD?
Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a science class in a W high school where the average on the last test was 40%. The teacher allows corrections to raise the grades, but the most the average kid in the class will get is a C on this test.

There is a method to the teacher's approach, but it is clear that simply attending class and doing the assigned work does not prepare the students for the test. Would you approach the teacher about this situation?



Nor should it. They have to STUDY.