Anonymous wrote:Is it just me or is college now more transactional than it was 20-30 years ago? It seems like students and parents are overwhelmingly focused on ROI, career earnings, next-step professional schools, etc. Extracurriculars and internships are all about landing a great job. Classes outside of one’s career path are a “waste of time,” and kids seek classes that are “easy” and “fit their lifestyle schedule.” I don’t hear kids talk with any excitement about a philosophy, religion, anthropology, fine arts, or history class. I don’t hear about kids working on research papers. I don’t hear kids grappling with social and political issues. Is it just me or has college become just another hurdle to adulthood that many feel they must jump, but really have no genuine interest in?

I was a STEM major and you seem to be describing my experience, but over 30 years ago. I didn’t talk with any excitement about philosophy or religion classes and took the bare minimum of those type required. Yes, we found out which were the easy ones.

Anonymous wrote:All society cares about now is money.

Someone in the jobs forum asked about what constitutes a prestige profession, and the first answer (and I believe a good one) was "a successful entrepreneur."

The country elected Trump, perhaps because they thought he was a good businessman. People swoon over Musk, yet he can be as careless as Trump. Both these men love to sneer at our government and society, yet we adulate them.

The Right has worked hard to denigrate experts and higher educational institutions.

Parents and kids don't pursue the liberal arts because the Right has taught them not to respect them.

+1

First thing fascists do is go after the intellectuals. They question everything.

Yes. It’s why my parents, both professors, retired 10 years earlier than I ever would have imagined. They used to love their jobs.

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s partly that academia no longer seems like a viable path. It used to be that if you majored in anthropology or comparative lit or philosophy you could get a PhD and teach (or it seemed like you could). But now almost everyone knows those jobs don’t exist.

But also—I was a humanities major and believe the humanities are dying in part because of the orientation of the disciplines themselves. Where is the study of English going? Literary theory is not a productive direction, imo. What exciting new developments are on the horizon?

Related to this is the administrative bloat at colleges and universities. They've become money grubbers run by lawyers. They hire teaching assistants and adjuncts rather than expanding faculties. They take advantage of all those who learn out of passion. I agree with OP, but don't blame it on the students. The colleges have turn themselves into certification mills by not themselves valuing learning and passion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at 80K a year for a private school, it’s changed what people expect.

This.

What percentage actually pays full price? Less than 10%. Its just general attitude to weigh education as $per pound, both for administration and for parents.

It's about ROI. College undergrad is a likely $200k+ investment for most.

Over 4 years, yes- take some interesting and fun classes, but ensure the degree is one that can support at least a middle class lifestyle.

The problem is that we have spent the last 40+ years telling kids that all you need is a college degree to get an above average life style. So, many, many kids who might have gone a different route (vocational school, apprenticeships, technical schools) are now going to college. Most degrees that students graduate with are oversubscribed. Many of the fields that are soft fields (fields that do not lead to an actual job outside of academia) have more students graduating with those degrees than there are positions to fill. So then they are forced to go into post-graduate training, whether law school, medical school, graduate school, business school, etc. And they rack up huge amounts of debt that they'll have to pay back, so they need to go into more lucrative fields to be able to afford their student loan payments.

Meanwhile, we have a dearth of auto mechanics, chefs, medical technicians, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians, and many other fields where you don't go to college. The students that used to go and take these careers and make decent wages, are no longer going into those fields because they pursued college and are looking for white collar jobs with their non-career oriented bachelor degrees.

So, yes, we have created a more transactional environment. Kids who go to college need to go into fields where they can earn their UMC lifestyle, especially if they have to pay student loans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at 80K a year for a private school, it’s changed what people expect.

OP here. I figured this would be the first response. But, for $80k, don’t you want your kid to be more interesting than just technically capable?

NP here. But even the people I know sending their kids to state schools and/or having their kid go to college somewhere with a significant amount of merit aid are very transactional.

OP here. Right! Right! But, I would have expected it more from those worried about finances. However, even those paying full freight to more expensive schools seem a bit the same. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that college costs and career readiness are not important. What I'm saying is that there seems a greatly diminished interest in anything but these issues. That is, no one seems to care anything about a liberal education - even at many selective schools.

At some price point, even the wealthy will start demanding value for money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All society cares about now is money.

Someone in the jobs forum asked about what constitutes a prestige profession, and the first answer (and I believe a good one) was "a successful entrepreneur."

The country elected Trump, perhaps because they thought he was a good businessman. People swoon over Musk, yet he can be as careless as Trump. Both these men love to sneer at our government and society, yet we adulate them.

The Right has worked hard to denigrate experts and higher educational institutions.

Parents and kids don't pursue the liberal arts because the Right has taught them not to respect them.

Say what? Come again

DP...defunding or underfunding both higher education and education in general, CRT/grooming both are lies that create tension for parents as it relates to schools, the list goes on. Delegitimizing experts and putting all fiath and knowledge into "the leader" is an authortiarian play that has been part of the GOP for years.

If “denigrating higher education” was working then it would be getting easier to get into top schools, because kids would be avoiding them. But it’s getting harder. So if this is the Right’s strategy, it’s not working.

We didn’t elect Trump because he was a great businessman, but because he was not Hillary.

Hmm well my DD is an anthropology major and a philosophy minor so yes they do still exist. Her favorite part about both areas is debating life’s questions with others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All society cares about now is money.

Someone in the jobs forum asked about what constitutes a prestige profession, and the first answer (and I believe a good one) was "a successful entrepreneur."

The country elected Trump, perhaps because they thought he was a good businessman. People swoon over Musk, yet he can be as careless as Trump. Both these men love to sneer at our government and society, yet we adulate them.

The Right has worked hard to denigrate experts and higher educational institutions.

Parents and kids don't pursue the liberal arts because the Right has taught them not to respect them.

Say what? Come again

DP...defunding or underfunding both higher education and education in general, CRT/grooming both are lies that create tension for parents as it relates to schools, the list goes on. Delegitimizing experts and putting all fiath and knowledge into "the leader" is an authortiarian play that has been part of the GOP for years.

Anonymous wrote:It’s largely due to the overcredentialization of jobs that provide a middle-class lifestyle or better. Many jobs that require a bachelors degree don’t actually need that much education to perform.

Perhaps the needle is moving in a different direction:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/employers-rethink-need-for-college-degrees-in-tight-labor-market-11669432133

Anonymous wrote:Is it just me or is college now more transactional than it was 20-30 years ago? It seems like students and parents are overwhelmingly focused on ROI, career earnings, next-step professional schools, etc. Extracurriculars and internships are all about landing a great job. Classes outside of one’s career path are a “waste of time,” and kids seek classes that are “easy” and “fit their lifestyle schedule.” I don’t hear kids talk with any excitement about a philosophy, religion, anthropology, fine arts, or history class. I don’t hear about kids working on research papers. I don’t hear kids grappling with social and political issues. Is it just me or has college become just another hurdle to adulthood that many feel they must jump, but really have no genuine interest in?

Nope, it was the same for us way back when. I don't encourage my kids to do fluffy majors. I will not pay for a fun major. I will pay for one that leads to a career, as my parents said.

Anonymous wrote:All society cares about now is money.

Someone in the jobs forum asked about what constitutes a prestige profession, and the first answer (and I believe a good one) was "a successful entrepreneur."

The country elected Trump, perhaps because they thought he was a good businessman. People swoon over Musk, yet he can be as careless as Trump. Both these men love to sneer at our government and society, yet we adulate them.

The Right has worked hard to denigrate experts and higher educational institutions.

Parents and kids don't pursue the liberal arts because the Right has taught them not to respect them.

Say what? Come again

I think it’s partly that academia no longer seems like a viable path. It used to be that if you majored in anthropology or comparative lit or philosophy you could get a PhD and teach (or it seemed like you could). But now almost everyone knows those jobs don’t exist.

But also—I was a humanities major and believe the humanities are dying in part because of the orientation of the disciplines themselves. Where is the study of English going? Literary theory is not a productive direction, imo. What exciting new developments are on the horizon?