Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would want your kids in APUSH in 9th. AP NSL is easier, and you have to take it eventually anyway.

That is why I said at Churchill HS. No choice. Their system is reverse from all the other schools in MCPS that I know of.

That's so odd! So you don't even have the option of switching it?

No.

Is there an option of taking regular or honors US History in 9th grade then taking APUSH later? It seems students would do better with a foundation course before taking the AP course.

You could, but then that takes up an elective slot that might be used for something else.

''

This is a reasonable question, and this is how it is generally done in the sciences (except that there is a basic AP physics course equivalent to the Honors class). But in social studies, I've never heard of this. It's the same basic content, just deeper dive. A person could take AP USH freshman year but then take AP World junior year. In our experience, AP World is much, much easier than APUSH. There are also other AP social studies to take later on if they take Honors USH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The general progression for students for a long time has been 9th - US History, 10th - NSL Government + state test, 11th - Modern World History. When schools started offering more AP classes they initially offered APUSH for 9th graders and AP Gov for 10th graders, parallel to the regular pathway. However, over the last 15 years, data showed that students were performing better in AP Gov than APUSH, so schools started switching the sequence. It makes scheduling a little harder because there are more possibilities for the general 9th or 10th grader, and for two years after the school makes the switch there's an imbalance between # of kids in each course.

Sure, some kids are ready for APUSH in 9th as their first AP course, but more kids are ready by 10th, especially after having taken their first AP (Gov) in 9th. If you don't think your kid is ready, I'd advocate for 9th grade AP Gov instead and wait until 10th for APUSH.

Maybe where you grew up, but where I'm from (and still in lots of other places) - 9th grade = World History.

+1. I had World History in 9th, "Civics" in 10th, and US History in 11th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would want your kids in APUSH in 9th. AP NSL is easier, and you have to take it eventually anyway.

That is why I said at Churchill HS. No choice. Their system is reverse from all the other schools in MCPS that I know of.

Not true. My kid is in 9th grade at Churchill. At the beginning of school year, th[b]e counselors told the freshmen parents that they did not recommend freshmen to take APUSH or other APs. There is honor US history and some students switched to that[/b]. My kid stayed at APUSH because his friends are staying. It is the most time consuming class so far, and grading is tough too.

If they said that kids should really think about whether they are ready for AP classes, then it is good advice. But if they literally said what is in bold (they don't recommended APUSH), it is strange advice. When kids are seniors applying to college, not only will kids with APUSH have a (small) advantage over kids who didn't take it naturally in the eyes of admissions officers, but my understanding is that the counselors, themselves, tout this as the 'most advanced curriculum' and thus use it as a selling point promoting kids in their recommendation letters. (I spoke to parents of seniors who said they had no idea it would be important when they had their kid register for Honors level but they found out it was a limitation for them.) Either there is a disconnect between what the counseling staff is telling freshmen vs seniors, or there was more nuance to the advice they were giving.

This was our experience at Churchill also. DS took Honors US History in 9th and then AP NSL in 10th. That was what the majority of kids in his class did. A smaller number took the AP history class, but I would only have my child do it if you think they can handle the rigor in 9th grade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would want your kids in APUSH in 9th. AP NSL is easier, and you have to take it eventually anyway.

That is why I said at Churchill HS. No choice. Their system is reverse from all the other schools in MCPS that I know of.

Not true. My kid is in 9th grade at Churchill. At the beginning of school year, the counselors told the freshmen parents that they did not recommend freshmen to take APUSH or other APs. There is honor US history and some students switched to that. My kid stayed at APUSH because his friends are staying. It is the most time consuming class so far, and grading is tough too.

If they said that kids should really think about whether they are ready for AP classes, then it is good advice. But if they literally said what is in bold (they don't recommended APUSH), it is strange advice. When kids are seniors applying to college, not only will kids with APUSH have a (small) advantage over kids who didn't take it naturally in the eyes of admissions officers, but my understanding is that the counselors, themselves, tout this as the 'most advanced curriculum' and thus use it as a selling point promoting kids in their recommendation letters. (I spoke to parents of seniors who said they had no idea it would be important when they had their kid register for Honors level but they found out it was a limitation for them.) Either there is a disconnect between what the counseling staff is telling freshmen vs seniors, or there was more nuance to the advice they were giving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would want your kids in APUSH in 9th. AP NSL is easier, and you have to take it eventually anyway.

That is why I said at Churchill HS. No choice. Their system is reverse from all the other schools in MCPS that I know of.

Not true. My kid is in 9th grade at Churchill. At the beginning of school year, the counselors told the freshmen parents that they did not recommend freshmen to take APUSH or other APs. There is honor US history and some students switched to that. My kid stayed at APUSH because his friends are staying. It is the most time consuming class so far, and grading is tough too.

OP is saying there is no choice in the order of social studies taken. US history is 9th grade; NSL is 10th grade. I'd imagine a very persistent parent could do something else but parents don't feel like they're given a choice and doing so would move the kid into classes with a different cohort, which isn't really desirable.

You can definitely choose between AP and honors-- that's what the thread is about!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would want your kids in APUSH in 9th. AP NSL is easier, and you have to take it eventually anyway.

That is why I said at Churchill HS. No choice. Their system is reverse from all the other schools in MCPS that I know of.

Not true. My kid is in 9th grade at Churchill. At the beginning of school year, the counselors told the freshmen parents that they did not recommend freshmen to take APUSH or other APs. There is honor US history and some students switched to that. My kid stayed at APUSH because his friends are staying. It is the most time consuming class so far, and grading is tough too.

I've had 2 kids go through APUSH at Churchill.

On the point of whether APUSH should be a freshman level class, it should not. I could elaborate, but there is no point because you would get severe push back if you tried to buck the system, and your kid would end up in a freshman class as a sophomore or junior, which they would hate.

On the point of how hard. My kids both found it to be a lot of work. I have a STEM kid who is not a reader and that kid found it particularly challenging and time consuming. Very late nights many nights of the week to prepare. Lots of complaints and stress. Eeked out an A but got a 3 on the AP exam (but really, who cares?) The other kid (more of a reader) also would say it was their hardest class that year, but didn't complain so much.

The redeeming factor is that in my kids' experience, APUSH was the *only* hard class during freshman year. (They would also say math was hard and it probably was, but it wasn't time consuming.) Everything else was a cinch and had basically no homework. Thus, the benefit of taking APUSH in their first year is that a) it doesn't necessitate that big time-effort when they are taking other APs, and b) it makes freshman year at least somewhat challenging.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would want your kids in APUSH in 9th. AP NSL is easier, and you have to take it eventually anyway.

That is why I said at Churchill HS. No choice. Their system is reverse from all the other schools in MCPS that I know of.

Rockville HS also does the same. APUSH in 9th grade. No choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The general progression for students for a long time has been 9th - US History, 10th - NSL Government + state test, 11th - Modern World History. When schools started offering more AP classes they initially offered APUSH for 9th graders and AP Gov for 10th graders, parallel to the regular pathway. However, over the last 15 years, data showed that students were performing better in AP Gov than APUSH, so schools started switching the sequence. It makes scheduling a little harder because there are more possibilities for the general 9th or 10th grader, and for two years after the school makes the switch there's an imbalance between # of kids in each course.

Sure, some kids are ready for APUSH in 9th as their first AP course, but more kids are ready by 10th, especially after having taken their first AP (Gov) in 9th. If you don't think your kid is ready, I'd advocate for 9th grade AP Gov instead and wait until 10th for APUSH.

I agree with this. My 9th grader is in AP GOV NSL and is doing fine. It takes a lot of studying but I imagine APUSH would be far more memorization.

It is actually the writing based on documents that most kids struggle with at first...

I will say that the last re-write of AP U.S. Government has upped the ante on writing, though.

Anonymous wrote:The general progression for students for a long time has been 9th - US History, 10th - NSL Government + state test, 11th - Modern World History. When schools started offering more AP classes they initially offered APUSH for 9th graders and AP Gov for 10th graders, parallel to the regular pathway. However, over the last 15 years, data showed that students were performing better in AP Gov than APUSH, so schools started switching the sequence. It makes scheduling a little harder because there are more possibilities for the general 9th or 10th grader, and for two years after the school makes the switch there's an imbalance between # of kids in each course.

Sure, some kids are ready for APUSH in 9th as their first AP course, but more kids are ready by 10th, especially after having taken their first AP (Gov) in 9th. If you don't think your kid is ready, I'd advocate for 9th grade AP Gov instead and wait until 10th for APUSH.

Maybe where you grew up, but where I'm from (and still in lots of other places) - 9th grade = World History.

Anonymous wrote:It seems like most HS prefer AP NSL in 9th and APUSH in 10th but a few like Churchill and Blair are reversed. I'm guessing there may be a reason but many have said having AP NSL in 9th is preferable since APUSH is a harder course.

The reason is because they have taken part of American history in 8th grade. Even if some kids pass (or even score 5s) as 9th graders, statistics show that scores are higher for older kids. AP U.S. Government (MCPS is breaking trademark to call it "AP NSL") is definitely a more appropriate starter course. It is really frustrating that some schools won't give families a choice.
- AP teacher

Anonymous wrote:The general progression for students for a long time has been 9th - US History, 10th - NSL Government + state test, 11th - Modern World History. When schools started offering more AP classes they initially offered APUSH for 9th graders and AP Gov for 10th graders, parallel to the regular pathway. However, over the last 15 years, data showed that students were performing better in AP Gov than APUSH, so schools started switching the sequence. It makes scheduling a little harder because there are more possibilities for the general 9th or 10th grader, and for two years after the school makes the switch there's an imbalance between # of kids in each course.

Sure, some kids are ready for APUSH in 9th as their first AP course, but more kids are ready by 10th, especially after having taken their first AP (Gov) in 9th. If you don't think your kid is ready, I'd advocate for 9th grade AP Gov instead and wait until 10th for APUSH.

I agree with this. My 9th grader is in AP GOV NSL and is doing fine. It takes a lot of studying but I imagine APUSH would be far more memorization.

The general progression for students for a long time has been 9th - US History, 10th - NSL Government + state test, 11th - Modern World History. When schools started offering more AP classes they initially offered APUSH for 9th graders and AP Gov for 10th graders, parallel to the regular pathway. However, over the last 15 years, data showed that students were performing better in AP Gov than APUSH, so schools started switching the sequence. It makes scheduling a little harder because there are more possibilities for the general 9th or 10th grader, and for two years after the school makes the switch there's an imbalance between # of kids in each course.

Sure, some kids are ready for APUSH in 9th as their first AP course, but more kids are ready by 10th, especially after having taken their first AP (Gov) in 9th. If you don't think your kid is ready, I'd advocate for 9th grade AP Gov instead and wait until 10th for APUSH.

Anonymous wrote:If it makes you feel any better, my DD took 9th grade APUSH at another school and only scored a 3. It was still a good experience for her. She loved the class and gained a firm foundation for future History/Social Science APs, which were all 5’s.

Naturally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would want your kids in APUSH in 9th. AP NSL is easier, and you have to take it eventually anyway.

That is why I said at Churchill HS. No choice. Their system is reverse from all the other schools in MCPS that I know of.

That's so odd! So you don't even have the option of switching it?

No.

Is there an option of taking regular or honors US History in 9th grade then taking APUSH later? It seems students would do better with a foundation course before taking the AP course.

You could, but then that takes up an elective slot that might be used for something else.