Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 18:51     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
What are dh’s parents doing for the holidays?
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 18:51     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
I have a feeling OP was more than happy to have the sister in law around when the kids were babies and toddlers and SIL helped babysit. Now the kids are older and since they don’t need a baby sitter anymore OP doesn’t want her around.

That said, it’s fine for you to take a trip over the holidays without her. Especially since it soojnds like she could visit her parents instead? But I object to your general uncaring attitude.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 18:43     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.


Well said. It is hard to believe that you think you are a good person, OP, when you are so clearly showing that you aren't. You can't make even a little room in your heart for this woman? You can't even suggest that she come to town and stay in a hotel (you can pay or you can pay halfsies or you can tell her to pay the cost herself, whichever you choose) just so one less person will be alone on the holidays? Your husband's sister? I would be so embarrassed to be you.


You both are nasty. OP has opened her heart and home to this freeloading loner SIL for years and years (including random vacations where SIL sleeps on the sofa bed with zero regard for how she’s rudely infringing on OP’s day to day life.) OP and her family have been more than accommodating. It is perfectly acceptable for OP and her nuclear family to want to do something different for the holidays. She’s giving plenty of notice. SIL can go hang out with her parents. You are just being rude to OP for no reason, unless you see yourself in SIL and made your lack of life everyone else’s problem.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 18:41     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.


Well said. It is hard to believe that you think you are a good person, OP, when you are so clearly showing that you aren't. You can't make even a little room in your heart for this woman? You can't even suggest that she come to town and stay in a hotel (you can pay or you can pay halfsies or you can tell her to pay the cost herself, whichever you choose) just so one less person will be alone on the holidays? Your husband's sister? I would be so embarrassed to be you.


Oh please!🤮
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 18:37     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.


Well said. It is hard to believe that you think you are a good person, OP, when you are so clearly showing that you aren't. You can't make even a little room in your heart for this woman? You can't even suggest that she come to town and stay in a hotel (you can pay or you can pay halfsies or you can tell her to pay the cost herself, whichever you choose) just so one less person will be alone on the holidays? Your husband's sister? I would be so embarrassed to be you.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 18:00     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
She has been enabled and coddled and there is a dysfunctional dynamic. I relate. I have a sister like this, but we were never close. In my case she is not a nice person, but my parents ignored and/or got defensive any times teachers expressed concerns about how she treated others. So now she is a lonely and mope and they have fed a victim mentality for too long. If we don't always include her she, a middle aged woman, cries to mommy and starts a drama.

You stick with your boundaries and stop enabling, but expect the family to go nuts. All hell broke loose. Eventually finally, when we stuck to our boundaries and she could not manipulate the situation she got help. She got therapy and meds and stopped blaming us and anyone else for her unhappiness. She also tries to form a network where she is. Unfortunately, she goes off those meds and the drams start up again but we stick to our boundaries. She is a bright and capable person who needs to be expected to develop a life for herself and now that we have boundaries sheis doing it. We didn't cut her off, we just stopped playing the games.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 17:50     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.


NP. No, I don’t feel obligated to people who are likely lonely because they are steamrollers who can’t take “no” for an answer, always have to have their way, only consider their own needs, and thus don’t have many people who want to hang out with them.

I have an uncle that no one invites to family functions anymore. That’s the natural consequence of him saying racist remarks and using racial slurs in other people’s homes, after being directly told not to and asked to leave. Natural consequences.


I'm sorry about your uncle.

But where are you getting ANY of this from what OP wrote. True, SIL perceives an open invitation to be at OPs house whenever she wants. But that perception is based on YEARS of it being acceptable and normal to everyone involved.

Other than that, there is nothing to indicate she is any of those things that you describe.

OP can absolutely change the dynamic in that relationship if it no longer works for her or her DH. Certainly. But no reason to cast the sister as some terrible person deserving to be shunned.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:45     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are not a good SIL. She is family. You owe her a connection, no questions asked. You're dumping her over the holidays. That really, really sucks.


Oh look - the SIL is here. Family does not mean you get to insist on what everyone does for the holidays. It sounds like part of the problem is not her being there for the actual day of the holiday, it’s that she constantly overstays her welcome.


"Oh look" -- OK, PP, you can mock people with ease. Congrats. I am not the SIL and not in the SIL's position, either. Some people don't have to be exactly like someone else to care about them. Think about that for a while.


NP. I like how you are calling PP out for “mocking” by saying “Congrats” in a sarcastic manner. Practice what you preach—think about that for a while.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:44     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.


Her parents are living—she can glom onto them. OP has a family, too. She should get to spend time with her family, yes? Or does OP’s family not count simply because they aren’t needy/clingy/whine-y?
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:43     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.


NP. No, I don’t feel obligated to people who are likely lonely because they are steamrollers who can’t take “no” for an answer, always have to have their way, only consider their own needs, and thus don’t have many people who want to hang out with them.

I have an uncle that no one invites to family functions anymore. That’s the natural consequence of him saying racist remarks and using racial slurs in other people’s homes, after being directly told not to and asked to leave. Natural consequences.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:40     Subject: Re:SIL emotionally dependent on our family
As the formerly single auntie - I sympathize with SIL. But if you want to make other plans and do other things as a nuclear family that’s reasonable. She can plan to visit the parents instead.

If you’re going on a trip or elsewhere for the holidays just give her plenty of notice. However, if you are staying in town, it does seem a little cruel to not invite SIL for some portion of the holiday. As a formerly single auntie - it was really wonderful to be invited to Xmas eve and morning with the kids to watch their excitement opening gifts from Santa and to be a part of the family for Thanksgiving dinner. If she’s staying too long for those holidays you should make it clear to her - the invite is just for one night (or not overnight) if due to your work schedules you’re not up for guests for extended periods of time.

It’s one thing to want to be a part of the family celebration, but that has its limits…

So, be as inclusive as you are comfortable with - especially thanksgiving dinner and Xmas day. But otherwise set your boundaries.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:33     Subject: Re:SIL emotionally dependent on our family
OP here. Thank you for all of the responses. DH partially blames his parents for the situation. They catered to her all of their lives and were very upset when she wanted to move away. She had a personal issue years ago and rather than empower her to live well they made her dependent. She now expects a lot from us as a result. We’re convinced they like her this way.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:27     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.


Unless I am reading incorrectly, SIL has parents she can spend holidays with. She is not "alone".

Skipping one holiday get together to do something else is not abandoning anyone. Most of us do this to some degree by splitting holiday time across both our families of origin.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:23     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:My SIL is in her late 40s-- never married, never moved away from her hometown, and doesn't have much going on in the way of hobbies or a wide group of friends. As a result, she has insisted on visiting us a lot. Her vacations are spent on our sofabed. We've been very welcoming and value the fact that she likes to see our kids, but it's gotten to be too much. Both DH and I are starting to get tired of this arrangement. She's become very entitled, already insisting that she's going to somehow spend both Thanksgiving and Christmas with us this year. She was upset when we said we're going to do something else-- go a friend's house for one of the holidays and take a family trip-- just us-- for the other. She's having a lot of problems with this and even went so far as to complain to DH's parents that we're cutting her out. His parents always take her side-- I think she's forever 12 in their eyes. I think they still pay for a lot of stuff for her-- her downpayment on a new condo, grad school, even her plane tickets to see us.

I feel bad for her sometimes because, of course, life is changing. Our kids are getting older and spending more time with their friends. We've been teleworking a lot, too, and she doesn't seem to understand that we really don't need a third person parked in our little house all day when she visits. She has money for a hotel-- plenty of it-- but just doesn't want to spend it. It occurred to DH and I recently that we've never even actually invited her over once-- she's never given us a chance to extend an invitation. It's always been "I want to visit you next month, I'm booking for XX days. OK?"

We're not going to tell her to find hobbies, move to a new city, or find a partner. It seems to be well beyond that. Dating never worked out and every person she went on dates with was never quite right, based on what she's said. Still, it's become clear to us that our family is now her easy default for all of her needs. Any suggestions for how to handle this better? We don't want to hurt her, but we're not responsible for her personal life.


OP apparently you have had this arrangement for years. You don't want that arrangement anymore, which is your right. But as you say, her life IS changing, you ARE cutting her out, and your family has been what has met her needs for years. It is normal for her to be hurt and to talk to her parents about that.

As long as you are telling her kindly what your intentions are, there is nothing more you can do. You can't change her feelings of being hurt.

Anonymous
Post 10/16/2022 16:20     Subject: SIL emotionally dependent on our family
Anonymous wrote:My SIL is in her late 40s-- never married, never moved away from her hometown, and doesn't have much going on in the way of hobbies or a wide group of friends. As a result, she has insisted on visiting us a lot. Her vacations are spent on our sofabed. We've been very welcoming and value the fact that she likes to see our kids, but it's gotten to be too much. Both DH and I are starting to get tired of this arrangement. She's become very entitled, already insisting that she's going to somehow spend both Thanksgiving and Christmas with us this year. She was upset when we said we're going to do something else-- go a friend's house for one of the holidays and take a family trip-- just us-- for the other. She's having a lot of problems with this and even went so far as to complain to DH's parents that we're cutting her out. His parents always take her side-- I think she's forever 12 in their eyes. I think they still pay for a lot of stuff for her-- her downpayment on a new condo, grad school, even her plane tickets to see us.

I feel bad for her sometimes because, of course, life is changing. Our kids are getting older and spending more time with their friends. We've been teleworking a lot, too, and she doesn't seem to understand that we really don't need a third person parked in our little house all day when she visits. She has money for a hotel-- plenty of it-- but just doesn't want to spend it. It occurred to DH and I recently that we've never even actually invited her over once-- she's never given us a chance to extend an invitation. It's always been "I want to visit you next month, I'm booking for XX days. OK?"

We're not going to tell her to find hobbies, move to a new city, or find a partner. It seems to be well beyond that. Dating never worked out and every person she went on dates with was never quite right, based on what she's said. Still, it's become clear to us that our family is now her easy default for all of her needs. Any suggestions for how to handle this better? We don't want to hurt her, but we're not responsible for her personal life.



Just because she is upset doesn’t mean you aren’t handling this well. I think making alternate plans for holidays is reasonable and telling you now is kind. She is entitled to spend holidays with you just because she wants to.

You will need a kind firm script. Something like, “We can’t do the holidays this year but we love to see you in February. Let us know which dates work for you!” To say over and over again.