Anonymous
09/23/2022 12:49
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Exposure to daily competition at a high level matters. This may be one reason that certain elite, highly selective undergraduate schools send so many to the Top 14 law schools year after year.
Often, parents of SLAC athletes share that many D-1 level athletes in non-revenue sports attend SLACs. While true, it is not the same as competing at the D-1 level throughout one's college experience. The D-1 athlete--although an equal talent to a D-3 athlete prior to entering college--is more likely, much more likely, to develop superior skills at the sport due to constant competition at a higher level.
Often, parents of SLAC athletes share that many D-1 level athletes in non-revenue sports attend SLACs. While true, it is not the same as competing at the D-1 level throughout one's college experience. The D-1 athlete--although an equal talent to a D-3 athlete prior to entering college--is more likely, much more likely, to develop superior skills at the sport due to constant competition at a higher level.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 12:41
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:I was a Law Review editor at one of the top law schools decades ago. The composition of our law review correlated to the list provided in this thread. But I think it not meaningful. People capable enough to get admitted to top undergrad schools are as a rule going to be very competitive in terms of law school admission. But this does not mean going to a top undergrad institution gives a leg up on admission or achievement. You have to be focused no matter where you go to undergrad. Our editor in chief went to Penn State. He distinguished himself there and continued with that progress in law school. My personal standard is whether I would engage him as a lawyer, and I certainly would.
What I found most valuable was exposure to competition and time pressure in undergrad. I was in an eleven person honors program, and about half of that class went to either Harvard or Yale for law school (I did not). Just learning to compete at a high level with people at that performance level makes you better. Significantly, I was a very serious scholarship athlete (this top 10 school along with Stanford issued athletic scholarships). Competing in athletics virtually every week - both losing and winning - made the pressure of law school seem moderate. Indeed law school was not all that much of a burden for me - except for paying for it as I wanted no loans. My fellow editor and captain of the Harvard golf team made the same comments. Competition matters (and it doesn't need to be sports). He had a social pedigree, which believe it or not, does matter in the business of law (I did not have any such thing).
OP here:
FWIW Interesting to note that the feeder list was compiled by the LSAC (law school admission council) which administers the LSAT (law school admissions test).
The former top 10 law school law review editor quoted above wrote: "But I think it not meaningful." Yet, prior to ("The composition of our law review correlated to the list compiled in this thread."), and after in the following paragraph ("What I found most valuable was exposure to competition and time pressure in undergrad. Just learning to compete at a high level with people at that performance level makes you better."), writing this sentence, the poster gives credence to the list.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 10:09
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
I was a Law Review editor at one of the top law schools decades ago. The composition of our law review correlated to the list provided in this thread. But I think it not meaningful. People capable enough to get admitted to top undergrad schools are as a rule going to be very competitive in terms of law school admission. But this does not mean going to a top undergrad institution gives a leg up on admission or achievement. You have to be focused no matter where you go to undergrad. Our editor in chief went to Penn State. He distinguished himself there and continued with that progress in law school. My personal standard is whether I would engage him as a lawyer, and I certainly would.
What I found most valuable was exposure to competition and time pressure in undergrad. I was in an eleven person honors program, and about half of that class went to either Harvard or Yale for law school (I did not). Just learning to compete at a high level with people at that performance level makes you better. Significantly, I was a very serious scholarship athlete (this top 10 school along with Stanford issued athletic scholarships). Competing in athletics virtually every week - both losing and winning - made the pressure of law school seem moderate. Indeed law school was not all that much of a burden for me - except for paying for it as I wanted no loans. My fellow editor and captain of the Harvard golf team made the same comments. Competition matters (and it doesn't need to be sports). He had a social pedigree, which believe it or not, does matter in the business of law (I did not have any such thing).
What I found most valuable was exposure to competition and time pressure in undergrad. I was in an eleven person honors program, and about half of that class went to either Harvard or Yale for law school (I did not). Just learning to compete at a high level with people at that performance level makes you better. Significantly, I was a very serious scholarship athlete (this top 10 school along with Stanford issued athletic scholarships). Competing in athletics virtually every week - both losing and winning - made the pressure of law school seem moderate. Indeed law school was not all that much of a burden for me - except for paying for it as I wanted no loans. My fellow editor and captain of the Harvard golf team made the same comments. Competition matters (and it doesn't need to be sports). He had a social pedigree, which believe it or not, does matter in the business of law (I did not have any such thing).
Anonymous
09/23/2022 06:24
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Not just wealthy and connected but poor and underrepresented minority also have a better chance than similar middle class applicants. Hard working and intelligent muddle class applicants are dime a dozen, its hard to standout among that category.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 06:19
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Harvard gets cream of the IQ crop AND most of them happen to be wealthy and connected as well, no wonder Harvard sends more to top law schools.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 06:15
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
I know of a couple of students who got into top three law schools from non flagship state schools. What they had going for them was ability to shine against their school's low achieving student body. Their advice is to attend school where you are a big deal, if its a T20 college fine, if you cant shine there among high achievers, pick a school with less competition and do well there.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 00:07
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Some law schools have programs that allow undergrads to be admitted as juniors.
I know Georgetown (a T14 law school) has one: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions-aid/jd-admissions/early-assurance-program/
Others also simply take large numbers of undergrads from their schools. It isn't a bad idea to attend an undergrad school that has a T14 law school!
I know Georgetown (a T14 law school) has one: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions-aid/jd-admissions/early-assurance-program/
Others also simply take large numbers of undergrads from their schools. It isn't a bad idea to attend an undergrad school that has a T14 law school!
Anonymous
09/21/2022 15:20
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
If I was a college student who wanted to go to law school, I'd probably spend 4 years prepping for the LSAT and taking the easiest STEM degree possible while trying to minimize undergrad cost as much as possible. Don't study Poli Sci or Econ or Psych.
In fact, if you went to somewhere like U-MT Missoula, it would probably be a boon to T14 application. Geographic diversity is a thing, but you need to graduate near the top and have a ridiculous LSAT (173+). If you've been drilling the LSAT for 4 years, you should have a high score.
In fact, if you went to somewhere like U-MT Missoula, it would probably be a boon to T14 application. Geographic diversity is a thing, but you need to graduate near the top and have a ridiculous LSAT (173+). If you've been drilling the LSAT for 4 years, you should have a high score.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 14:43
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
The thread title is misleading. Undergrad feeders to T14 schools are not a thing.
Feels like this gets posted every month or so - for those new to law school admissions, search up plenty of old threads where attorneys explain to misinformed non-attorneys that the idea of feeders for law school admission is very misguided. Over and over again.
Feels like this gets posted every month or so - for those new to law school admissions, search up plenty of old threads where attorneys explain to misinformed non-attorneys that the idea of feeders for law school admission is very misguided. Over and over again.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 13:14
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.
Correct
If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.
As a PP explained, there's a confounding extrinsic variable: students who get into the top undergraduate schools tend to have high GPAs and standardized test scores. These same students are likely to have high undergraduate GPAs and standardized test scores. In other words, the students who are most likely to get into the top law schools are the same students who are most likely to get into the top undergraduate programs.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 12:16
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If interested, one can search for average LSAT scores by undergraduate school. The most elite undergraduate schools have higher LSAT scores than do non-elite schools. Whether or not the school environment and academic demands made a meaningful difference is a debatable topic.
Very debatable. Would make more sense to compare ACT/SAT scores. Lots of kids with high test scores are rejected by top schools and they end up somewhere - often with big scholarships.
The word "average' used in the phrase "average LSAT scores by undergraduate school" is important.
To the quoted posted, I assume that you are referring to top undergraduate schools, not law schools, when you wrote "top schools".
Anonymous
09/21/2022 12:11
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:If interested, one can search for average LSAT scores by undergraduate school. The most elite undergraduate schools have higher LSAT scores than do non-elite schools. Whether or not the school environment and academic demands made a meaningful difference is a debatable topic.
Very debatable. Would make more sense to compare ACT/SAT scores. Lots of kids with high test scores are rejected by top schools and they end up somewhere - often with big scholarships.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 10:16
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:If interested, one can search for average LSAT scores by undergraduate school. The most elite undergraduate schools have higher LSAT scores than do non-elite schools. Whether or not the school environment and academic demands made a meaningful difference is a debatable topic.
I don’t doubt it, but I suspect the reason is that the top universities generally don’t offer the majors that traditionally do very poorly on the LSAT and offer in spades the ones that tend to do well on it.
e.g., criminal justice, social work, marketing, sociology, criminology, communications, journalism are the worst performing majors on the LSAT. The majors that tend to do the best are maths, classics, economics, philosophy, history. In the middle are the hard sciences, engineering, foreign languages, English.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 09:57
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.
Correct
If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.
oh, man. *whispers* correlation is not causation
Anonymous
09/21/2022 09:54
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
If interested, one can search for average LSAT scores by undergraduate school. The most elite undergraduate schools have higher LSAT scores than do non-elite schools. Whether or not the school environment and academic demands made a meaningful difference is a debatable topic.