Anonymous
Post 09/17/2022 10:47     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
Anonymous wrote:This is a very common way to teach gifted children. It’s sometimes referred to as a flipped classroom.

This is not unique to TJ and many AP classes run this way. Self teaching is a vital skill for high performers.


It feels kinda like the Socratic method too.

Honestly- this is good. They need to be able to do this in the real world anyway and in college.

Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 21:12     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
pettifogger wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A question I guess - would it be cheating for her to look online to try to figure out how to do the problems she gets stuck on? Or that is to be expected given the non-teaching approach? DD does not want to cheat of course but I’m also not sure what she’s supposed to do besides go online for answers if the teacher won’t help the kids figure things out .

- OP

OP, from reading this thread and your descriptions, I'm not fully convinced that the teacher will simply not help kids understand things. I have a feeling that there's more to this than meets the eye. For instance, I teach an AoPS course and some of the homework questions are pretty challenging. We have numerous instances of kids who just skip the problems, even though in class I am literally begging them to ask for help rather than wait a week for the next class (we have a message board where they can post a question whenever they are stuck on a problem and they often get a response within hours). However if they do not make any kind of effort to describe where they are stuck, what they have tried to do so far, etc. it's very hard to guide them. So I am curious as to how she has asked for help, has she tried something and explained to the teacher why it didn't work? Or did she start by saying something like "I don't know what to do" which would likely invite a response from the teacher as "have you looked at the notes/reading"? Teachers have very little time for 1 on 1 during class so they expect that students made some effort to understand/explain what they tried and show where they are stuck before they can effectively help. I think you should explore this in detail with her and try to pinpoint exactly what the problem is, and how she asked for help/what was the problem. I find it very hard to believe that teachers want students not to succeed, I imagine at TJ they are passionate about what they teach and want to impart that to students, but also expect them to make an initial effort to understand on their own.


+1

Pretty much in line with what the teacher told us on back to school night.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 20:51     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
+1 to the post above (I posted before that about specific resources to learn python)


I also dont think the teachers are throwing the kids into the deep end of the pool and expecting them to figure it out.

pettifogger
Post 09/16/2022 20:20     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
Anonymous wrote:A question I guess - would it be cheating for her to look online to try to figure out how to do the problems she gets stuck on? Or that is to be expected given the non-teaching approach? DD does not want to cheat of course but I’m also not sure what she’s supposed to do besides go online for answers if the teacher won’t help the kids figure things out .

- OP

OP, from reading this thread and your descriptions, I'm not fully convinced that the teacher will simply not help kids understand things. I have a feeling that there's more to this than meets the eye. For instance, I teach an AoPS course and some of the homework questions are pretty challenging. We have numerous instances of kids who just skip the problems, even though in class I am literally begging them to ask for help rather than wait a week for the next class (we have a message board where they can post a question whenever they are stuck on a problem and they often get a response within hours). However if they do not make any kind of effort to describe where they are stuck, what they have tried to do so far, etc. it's very hard to guide them. So I am curious as to how she has asked for help, has she tried something and explained to the teacher why it didn't work? Or did she start by saying something like "I don't know what to do" which would likely invite a response from the teacher as "have you looked at the notes/reading"? Teachers have very little time for 1 on 1 during class so they expect that students made some effort to understand/explain what they tried and show where they are stuck before they can effectively help. I think you should explore this in detail with her and try to pinpoint exactly what the problem is, and how she asked for help/what was the problem. I find it very hard to believe that teachers want students not to succeed, I imagine at TJ they are passionate about what they teach and want to impart that to students, but also expect them to make an initial effort to understand on their own.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 18:25     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
If its looking for python syntax ( for or if else loops etc) - that not at all cheating..

my kid said this website is good

https://www.w3schools.com/python/python_syntax.asp

Girls Who Code org uses a web based software called trinket, which is super easy. And they have some nice tutorials ( i would start here).

https://girlswhocode.com/assets/downloads/craft-prod/downloads/Girls-Who-Code-At-Home-Can-I-Help-You.pdf
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 17:50     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
A question I guess - would it be cheating for her to look online to try to figure out how to do the problems she gets stuck on? Or that is to be expected given the non-teaching approach? DD does not want to cheat of course but I’m also not sure what she’s supposed to do besides go online for answers if the teacher won’t help the kids figure things out .

- OP
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 17:48     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:yup.. this week they did recursions.. overall math and CS have a strong connection in logic etc. so all good there.

just more help on basic syntax, start with simple lines of code would have helped.

maybe they are doing all that. my kid is typically cryptic about details

Ok yeah, doing recursion 4 weeks into a first/intro course in CS is quite fast, so that probably explains why many students who are not very strong at math OR have programmed before are having a hard time, while others who have at least one of those two things are likely breezing through.


Oops I badly flubbed the above, I meant to say "many students who are not very strong at math AND have never programmed before"


DD is not off the charts but has done great at the Algebra in 7th advanced level and always found math pretty easy without supplementing or studying. But has not coded at all before this.

She too says this is just how TJ is apparently - that’s a shame in my view since so many of the other things so far are really wonderful about the school

- OP
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 14:09     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
I was surprised too. My child has zero experience with programming but I can see how this would enable them to cover more material and at a deeper level. A little bit of struggle early on would not be so bad.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 13:24     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:yup.. this week they did recursions.. overall math and CS have a strong connection in logic etc. so all good there.

just more help on basic syntax, start with simple lines of code would have helped.

maybe they are doing all that. my kid is typically cryptic about details

Ok yeah, doing recursion 4 weeks into a first/intro course in CS is quite fast, so that probably explains why many students who are not very strong at math OR have programmed before are having a hard time, while others who have at least one of those two things are likely breezing through.


Oops I badly flubbed the above, I meant to say "many students who are not very strong at math AND have never programmed before"
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 13:22     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
Anonymous wrote:yup.. this week they did recursions.. overall math and CS have a strong connection in logic etc. so all good there.

just more help on basic syntax, start with simple lines of code would have helped.

maybe they are doing all that. my kid is typically cryptic about details

Ok yeah, doing recursion 4 weeks into a first/intro course in CS is quite fast, so that probably explains why many students who are not very strong at math OR have programmed before are having a hard time, while others who have at least one of those two things are likely breezing through.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 13:20     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
That's how a lot of classes at TJ run. Minimal teaching and students learn on their own. That's why my second child will not apply.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 12:51     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
yup.. this week they did recursions.. overall math and CS have a strong connection in logic etc. so all good there.

just more help on basic syntax, start with simple lines of code would have helped.

maybe they are doing all that. my kid is typically cryptic about details
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 12:38     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:the intro CS class. Several sections taught by math teachers. focus is on logic to solve factorial etc type of problems.

limited focus on syntax etc. thats what I think. but open to hear from others.


Yes this sounds like what DD is talking about. She’s supposed to figure it out rather than learn a new language. Given she has never coded before and this is the basic class that strikes me as beyond bizarre.

- OP

Here's where I'm confused about the two posts above... if it's an issue with the math, i.e factorials, etc, that would be different than an issue with the learning the language, which is initially learning syntax. So is it that they are already combining both math and CS together, i.e teaching a concept such as recursion where you have to understand the math and implement it in the new language? If so, then yes, recursion is probably a bit too early at this point in an intro to CS class as it's a complicated idea when students see it for the first time. For recursion, I would definitely expect the teacher to help students, especially if multiple kids are having trouble understanding.
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 12:25     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
Anonymous wrote:the intro CS class. Several sections taught by math teachers. focus is on logic to solve factorial etc type of problems.

limited focus on syntax etc. thats what I think. but open to hear from others.


Yes this sounds like what DD is talking about. She’s supposed to figure it out rather than learn a new language. Given she has never coded before and this is the basic class that strikes me as beyond bizarre.

- OP
Anonymous
Post 09/16/2022 12:20     Subject: Question for TJ parents- TJ teaching practices
the intro CS class. Several sections taught by math teachers. focus is on logic to solve factorial etc type of problems.

limited focus on syntax etc. thats what I think. but open to hear from others.