This is the OP looking for people's experiences with late developing embryos and using ICSI in later rounds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We went through IVF at Columbia Fertility. 6 eggs retrieved, two transferred at early morula and 8 cell stage, three more discarded. Was not informed about remaining embryos being discarded. Not pregnant. This has been an awful experience, and we are where we started - no pregnancy, no eggs.

For those that had to do multiple rounds and had "late developing embryos", was assisted hatching successful? Dreading doing this again, especially after the disregard shown by Columbia Fertility.

So I don't think ANY of these clinics are honest about the numbers game with embryos. I'm at Walter Reed so they have no reason not to be frank and just aren't. Shady Grove was the same. I had 28 follicles, 13 mature eggs, 11 fertilized and only 3 made it to day 5 and after PGT I'll be lucky to have 1 normal embryo. After reading odds that's very typical outcome. Except most people don't start with that many eggs. So in other words 1 cycle is unlikely to result in a baby 😑.

Agree that RE world isn't very transparent about the odds of one cycle working. I am more upset about the fact that the only thing I got from Columbia Fertility about the three that weren't implanted was an email that literally says "Day 6: 3@degenerate and discarded." This is the only update I have received from a medical professional. I only know about what stages they were at due to forcing a coordinator to go through my charts the day of my pregnancy test in the office because I refused to take the test until this was explained, along with breakthrough bleeding that had begun and was report via email and phone, not on my chart. As far as mature eggs, they told me they couldn't tell which ones were mature????? They also did not do a follicle count throughout the process, just measured three biggest follicles at each stage. I don't even know how many follicles I had. Do not go to Columbia Fertility.

I am looking for insight from people who have had "late progressing embryos" and ICIS, not assisted hatching as I said earlier. If you had late progressing embryos in one cycle, did ICIS help? Going back to Dominion for next cycle but curious what other's experience has been.

Its very common to lose most embryos by day 5 in development. Hence I went from 11 to 3. There is a visual difference in mature vs immature egg, but that would also be caught in the fertilization rate.

Since we had to do ICSI for PGT they said we wouldn't need assisted hatching or other interventions before transferring.

Was yours a fresh transfer? There is more and more evidence that transfer from frozen is better than fresh transfers, but if they transferred early because of quality concerns it may have been likely that the embryos wouldn't make it to freeze (like the other 3 did not).

It was a fresh transfer, but I am really looking for anyone's experience dealing with developing embryos and ICSI as ICSI was not something we did in this round.

ICSI doesn't improve the odds of embryos making it to day 5, it only improves the fertilization rate if you had a problem with that. (Of 13 mature eggs, 11 fertilized via ICSI - which sounds like a common stats 75-80%).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We went through IVF at Columbia Fertility. 6 eggs retrieved, two transferred at early morula and 8 cell stage, three more discarded. Was not informed about remaining embryos being discarded. Not pregnant. This has been an awful experience, and we are where we started - no pregnancy, no eggs.

For those that had to do multiple rounds and had "late developing embryos", was assisted hatching successful? Dreading doing this again, especially after the disregard shown by Columbia Fertility.

So I don't think ANY of these clinics are honest about the numbers game with embryos. I'm at Walter Reed so they have no reason not to be frank and just aren't. Shady Grove was the same. I had 28 follicles, 13 mature eggs, 11 fertilized and only 3 made it to day 5 and after PGT I'll be lucky to have 1 normal embryo. After reading odds that's very typical outcome. Except most people don't start with that many eggs. So in other words 1 cycle is unlikely to result in a baby 😑.

Agree that RE world isn't very transparent about the odds of one cycle working. I am more upset about the fact that the only thing I got from Columbia Fertility about the three that weren't implanted was an email that literally says "Day 6: 3@degenerate and discarded." This is the only update I have received from a medical professional. I only know about what stages they were at due to forcing a coordinator to go through my charts the day of my pregnancy test in the office because I refused to take the test until this was explained, along with breakthrough bleeding that had begun and was report via email and phone, not on my chart. As far as mature eggs, they told me they couldn't tell which ones were mature????? They also did not do a follicle count throughout the process, just measured three biggest follicles at each stage. I don't even know how many follicles I had. Do not go to Columbia Fertility.

I am looking for insight from people who have had "late progressing embryos" and ICIS, not assisted hatching as I said earlier. If you had late progressing embryos in one cycle, did ICIS help? Going back to Dominion for next cycle but curious what other's experience has been.

Its very common to lose most embryos by day 5 in development. Hence I went from 11 to 3. There is a visual difference in mature vs immature egg, but that would also be caught in the fertilization rate.

Since we had to do ICSI for PGT they said we wouldn't need assisted hatching or other interventions before transferring.

Was yours a fresh transfer? There is more and more evidence that transfer from frozen is better than fresh transfers, but if they transferred early because of quality concerns it may have been likely that the embryos wouldn't make it to freeze (like the other 3 did not).

It was a fresh transfer, but I am really looking for anyone's experience dealing with developing embryos and ICSI as ICSI was not something we did in this round.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We went through IVF at Columbia Fertility. 6 eggs retrieved, two transferred at early morula and 8 cell stage, three more discarded. Was not informed about remaining embryos being discarded. Not pregnant. This has been an awful experience, and we are where we started - no pregnancy, no eggs.

For those that had to do multiple rounds and had "late developing embryos", was assisted hatching successful? Dreading doing this again, especially after the disregard shown by Columbia Fertility.

So I don't think ANY of these clinics are honest about the numbers game with embryos. I'm at Walter Reed so they have no reason not to be frank and just aren't. Shady Grove was the same. I had 28 follicles, 13 mature eggs, 11 fertilized and only 3 made it to day 5 and after PGT I'll be lucky to have 1 normal embryo. After reading odds that's very typical outcome. Except most people don't start with that many eggs. So in other words 1 cycle is unlikely to result in a baby 😑.

Agree that RE world isn't very transparent about the odds of one cycle working. I am more upset about the fact that the only thing I got from Columbia Fertility about the three that weren't implanted was an email that literally says "Day 6: 3@degenerate and discarded." This is the only update I have received from a medical professional. I only know about what stages they were at due to forcing a coordinator to go through my charts the day of my pregnancy test in the office because I refused to take the test until this was explained, along with breakthrough bleeding that had begun and was report via email and phone, not on my chart. As far as mature eggs, they told me they couldn't tell which ones were mature????? They also did not do a follicle count throughout the process, just measured three biggest follicles at each stage. I don't even know how many follicles I had. Do not go to Columbia Fertility.

I am looking for insight from people who have had "late progressing embryos" and ICIS, not assisted hatching as I said earlier. If you had late progressing embryos in one cycle, did ICIS help? Going back to Dominion for next cycle but curious what other's experience has been.

Its very common to lose most embryos by day 5 in development. Hence I went from 11 to 3. There is a visual difference in mature vs immature egg, but that would also be caught in the fertilization rate.

Since we had to do ICSI for PGT they said we wouldn't need assisted hatching or other interventions before transferring.

Was yours a fresh transfer? There is more and more evidence that transfer from frozen is better than fresh transfers, but if they transferred early because of quality concerns it may have been likely that the embryos wouldn't make it to freeze (like the other 3 did not).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We went through IVF at Columbia Fertility. 6 eggs retrieved, two transferred at early morula and 8 cell stage, three more discarded. Was not informed about remaining embryos being discarded. Not pregnant. This has been an awful experience, and we are where we started - no pregnancy, no eggs.

For those that had to do multiple rounds and had "late developing embryos", was assisted hatching successful? Dreading doing this again, especially after the disregard shown by Columbia Fertility.

So I don't think ANY of these clinics are honest about the numbers game with embryos. I'm at Walter Reed so they have no reason not to be frank and just aren't. Shady Grove was the same. I had 28 follicles, 13 mature eggs, 11 fertilized and only 3 made it to day 5 and after PGT I'll be lucky to have 1 normal embryo. After reading odds that's very typical outcome. Except most people don't start with that many eggs. So in other words 1 cycle is unlikely to result in a baby 😑.

Agree that RE world isn't very transparent about the odds of one cycle working. I am more upset about the fact that the only thing I got from Columbia Fertility about the three that weren't implanted was an email that literally says "Day 6: 3@degenerate and discarded." This is the only update I have received from a medical professional. I only know about what stages they were at due to forcing a coordinator to go through my charts the day of my pregnancy test in the office because I refused to take the test until this was explained, along with breakthrough bleeding that had begun and was report via email and phone, not on my chart. As far as mature eggs, they told me they couldn't tell which ones were mature????? They also did not do a follicle count throughout the process, just measured three biggest follicles at each stage. I don't even know how many follicles I had. Do not go to Columbia Fertility.

I am looking for insight from people who have had "late progressing embryos" and ICIS, not assisted hatching as I said earlier. If you had late progressing embryos in one cycle, did ICIS help? Going back to Dominion for next cycle but curious what other's experience has been.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We went through IVF at Columbia Fertility. 6 eggs retrieved, two transferred at early morula and 8 cell stage, three more discarded. Was not informed about remaining embryos being discarded. Not pregnant. This has been an awful experience, and we are where we started - no pregnancy, no eggs.

For those that had to do multiple rounds and had "late developing embryos", was assisted hatching successful? Dreading doing this again, especially after the disregard shown by Columbia Fertility.

So I don't think ANY of these clinics are honest about the numbers game with embryos. I'm at Walter Reed so they have no reason not to be frank and just aren't. Shady Grove was the same. I had 28 follicles, 13 mature eggs, 11 fertilized and only 3 made it to day 5 and after PGT I'll be lucky to have 1 normal embryo. After reading odds that's very typical outcome. Except most people don't start with that many eggs. So in other words 1 cycle is unlikely to result in a baby 😑.

Yeah they're really is something going on at the office. I am totally shocked by the medical records I received. Not much, all handwritten.

I cannot believe a doctor is shoving anything in anyone's face, especially evidence of their own incompetence. This is 100% elective, its a really bad business move to treat us like this.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We went through IVF at Columbia Fertility. 6 eggs retrieved, two transferred at early morula and 8 cell stage, three more discarded. Was not informed about remaining embryos being discarded. Not pregnant. This has been an awful experience, and we are where we started - no pregnancy, no eggs.

For those that had to do multiple rounds and had "late developing embryos", was assisted hatching successful? Dreading doing this again, especially after the disregard shown by Columbia Fertility.

I’m so sorry, I don’t have any answer to your question. Just wanted to say I also had an awful experience at CFA, including a doctor shoving my file in my face while I was laying down to prove that insurance had been done correctly. Except that the date he was showing me was three weeks after the office told me they had done it and I had to follow up repeatedly with “the insurance said they have nothing.” I think there’s something going on in the office. I know Dr. Rifka left, but it seems to have been in disarray before I took my file and left.

OP here. We went through IVF at Columbia Fertility. 6 eggs retrieved, two transferred at early morula and 8 cell stage, three more discarded. Was not informed about remaining embryos being discarded. Not pregnant. This has been an awful experience, and we are where we started - no pregnancy, no eggs.

For those that had to do multiple rounds and had "late developing embryos", was assisted hatching successful? Dreading doing this again, especially after the disregard shown by Columbia Fertility.

Anonymous wrote:We had unexplained IF too and had to go through IVF to conceive our first at age 39, but then we went on and had our second naturally at 42.

One crucial first step was finding an RE that we trusted. I started with one that just didn't seem a good fit. I had no problem transferring to another RE in the same practice who's younger and much more up to date on the latest research, and he had the best bedside manner to boot. I completely trusted him. He basically laid it out as: given our ages, our best bet was IVF. But knowing that we were reluctant to go straight to IVF, he thinks the wisest course for us was to go through a couple of medicated rounds and IUIs, but not to wait too long before IVF if none of those worked.

So we proceeded with 3 medicated rounds and 1 IUI. I do not regret these rounds because they provided data points to my RE about my responses to various meds and doses, and he adjusted them each month. So going into ivf he knew what meds/dosage worked best for me. Also they helped prepare us mentally and physically for the ivf. I got used to the needles, and we had plenty of practice with everything.

Because of this stepped up approach, the idea of ivf wasn't so scary any more and we lost no time getting into that cycle. The RE correctly predicted how many eggs I would produce, and we got DC1 from that one cycle.

I'm a PP who wanted to +1 this part

I also went straight from the 3rd failed IUI into first round of IVF (successful) without taking any time "off"

We had unexplained IF too and had to go through IVF to conceive our first at age 39, but then we went on and had our second naturally at 42.

One crucial first step was finding an RE that we trusted. I started with one that just didn't seem a good fit. I had no problem transferring to another RE in the same practice who's younger and much more up to date on the latest research, and he had the best bedside manner to boot. I completely trusted him. He basically laid it out as: given our ages, our best bet was IVF. But knowing that we were reluctant to go straight to IVF, he thinks the wisest course for us was to go through a couple of medicated rounds and IUIs, but not to wait too long before IVF if none of those worked.

So we proceeded with 3 medicated rounds and 1 IUI. I do not regret these rounds because they provided data points to my RE about my responses to various meds and doses, and he adjusted them each month. So going into ivf he knew what meds/dosage worked best for me. Also they helped prepare us mentally and physically for the ivf. I got used to the needles, and we had plenty of practice with everything.

Because of this stepped up approach, the idea of ivf wasn't so scary any more and we lost no time getting into that cycle. The RE correctly predicted how many eggs I would produce, and we got DC1 from that one cycle.

Second what others have said, that the emotional and financial burden was actually way worse than the physical burden. As someone who absolutely hates shots, I got through it by having my husband give me every shot while I laid down. I would then follow the evening shots with a treat for myself (usually ice cream). The shots for retrieval are typically tiny needles that you can barely feel, although menopur can really sting. All of the waiting is really hard so figure out some ways to fill your time while you are waiting for results. Wishing you success!!

I think everyone’s experience is different but for most it is challenging in one way or another. Here are some answers to your questions and a few things that helped me:

- different clinics have different default protocols. Fresh transfers are still done but you will want to bring this up and advocate for it if you are interested. Not that most testing is done with frozen embryos so if you know for sure you want to do that then you are likely looking at one retrieval round and then later transfer date.
- medication will range depending on your specific situation and numbers. It also might change from one retrieval or transfer to the next (if you need multiple). I found it helpful to keep a record of side effects. Nurses will tell you there is a wide range of responses from people side effects wise so you just never know. When it comes to retrieval meds do know what to look out for in regards to OHSS in case you get it post retrieval. I had no idea what it was and ended up having it but just sitting at home too long thinking I was just bloated.
- Prep wise the doctor may give you a pre-protocol prep whether that includes birth control or other meds. It depends on your case. You might also not have any.
- Non official prep wise - you can also take a look at your nutrition, sleep, hydration, stress and tweak up any of these things. Some people also take supplements or incorporate therapy, yoga, acupuncture into their routine. It is totally up to you and what you find yourself needing and interested in.
- One tip I would advise is to have a support plan. Whether it is a partner, close friend, support group, therapist, or some combo of the above or other… sometimes it can be isolating and it is nice to have a support system built in.

There is no definite way going through IVF will/won’t/should/shouldn’t look. I have found what IVF looks like and what the experience is is largely dependent on each individuals personal experience. We all just have different sensitivities (not a bad thing), different fertility related traumas and hard times, different emotional/mental/physical needs etc… a lot of it is knowing yourself or getting to know yourself and navigating the journey as it comes. I will say, always advocate for yourself and if you are ever unclear double check with a nurse/doctor.

Wishing you the best!

Anonymous wrote:After many failed timed sex attempts, its looking like we will need to go into IVF, something I really am dreading. Can anymore who has been there, done that give me a head's up on how different medication will be, side effects? Also, any insight into what kind of prep is needed? I feel like we should be able to start with one cycle between our last timed sex and starting an IFV cycle. We are entering what is likely our last timed sex cycle.

Also, are people in the DMV still able to do fresh transfers? Or should I really just be preparing to go through a harvest cycle.

It’s a breeze. Don’t sweat it. Don’t overthink it. Also have all your embryos tested.

Our diagnosis is unexplained infertility too. We tried timed sex and 3 IUI, none worked. I wish we went straight to IVF, but you dont know what you dont know. Our first IVF cycle worked and 5 years later conceived naturally while planning to start another transfer cycle. Always heard of it happening, but never believed it would for us.