Anonymous wrote:She spent an afternoon on what I thought would be the first draft, but she said she’s done, refused to edit or take feedbacks for even slight changes to improve the flow. She has good stats and is applying to some selective schools, I feel it is a waste of the application fee by not taking the essay seriously.
It has been two weeks and she insists she doesn’t need help with her essay. What can I do?

Make her pay the application fee if you think it's a waste to submit. Then she gets to a) submit the sh--y essay and b) bear the cost of doing so.

Getting feedback is not the same as proofreading. Good writing instructors provide feedback but proofreading is for students and writing centers.

Isn't her AP or Honors language teacher assisting with this?

I know at our high school it's the norm for the first few weeks of the senior year to be geared towards assisting with this / they typically want to help.

I'd encourage her to reach out to them and get their feedback vs. it coming from you.

Why not ask her what there is to lose in asking someone, not you, to look at her essay and give feedback?

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Anonymous wrote:Tell her you will not pay for the application fee until she fixes it. She can fix it or find a way to pay for it herself.

Fix it according to whom???

From an ethical standpoint, the essay should be only the child’s work. Forcing a kid to take someone else’s edits or not apply is absurd and wrong.

I didn’t say force her I just wouldn’t pay for the application. Having someone proofread an essay is not unethical, many college professors will proofread essays during office hours if asked. The fact that she’s being completely stubborn and unwilling to receive feedback is why I wouldn’t pay for it. If she agreed to meet with a teacher or librarian that could make suggestions I’d be ok with that whether she takes the suggestions and applies them or not. Allowing a child to completely disregard the draft writing process for an essay when they’re applying to college just sets them up to think this will be ok in college as well. The point is to teach the lesson and help expand essay writing abilities and learn to accept feedback as part of the process, not to force changes.

It’s her essay. It’s her writing. The college is judging her.

And no, good professors don’t proofread essays. They might point out several examples of errors or poor stylistic choices and then tell the student to carefully read their paper and find similar errors and fix them. They do NOT proofread. Please do not teach your kid that she should ask her college professors to proofread her essay in office hours.

Signed, a writing professor

+1 and can I put this in all caps? College professors do not proofread essays! Your college kids will be on their own (except maybe for a writing center). Even more shocking, their future bosses will also not proofread their work for them!

(Insert sound of helicopter / lawnmower in the background)

My DC got lots of instruction and feedback about written assignments prior to handng them in. It was an incredibly valuable learning experience. Seek out professors that will help teach your college student to improve their writing.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell her you will not pay for the application fee until she fixes it. She can fix it or find a way to pay for it herself.

Fix it according to whom???

From an ethical standpoint, the essay should be only the child’s work. Forcing a kid to take someone else’s edits or not apply is absurd and wrong.

I didn’t say force her I just wouldn’t pay for the application. Having someone proofread an essay is not unethical, many college professors will proofread essays during office hours if asked. The fact that she’s being completely stubborn and unwilling to receive feedback is why I wouldn’t pay for it. If she agreed to meet with a teacher or librarian that could make suggestions I’d be ok with that whether she takes the suggestions and applies them or not. Allowing a child to completely disregard the draft writing process for an essay when they’re applying to college just sets them up to think this will be ok in college as well. The point is to teach the lesson and help expand essay writing abilities and learn to accept feedback as part of the process, not to force changes.

It’s her essay. It’s her writing. The college is judging her.

And no, good professors don’t proofread essays. They might point out several examples of errors or poor stylistic choices and then tell the student to carefully read their paper and find similar errors and fix them. They do NOT proofread. Please do not teach your kid that she should ask her college professors to proofread her essay in office hours.

Signed, a writing professor

+1 and can I put this in all caps? College professors do not proofread essays! Your college kids will be on their own (except maybe for a writing center). Even more shocking, their future bosses will also not proofread their work for them!

(Insert sound of helicopter / lawnmower in the background)

Anonymous wrote:Are you going to proof and revise all of her college work next year too? If she cannot compose the essay to secure her spot, that’s just what it is.

Not really true at all

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if the essay is awful, i wouldn't want to spend the money to apply.

if kid doesn't want you to edit, can kid get a teacher to edit it?

let her pay the app fee that is going to be wasted.

No She doesn’t want a teacher and turned down a close relative also, I feel she is just stubborn and lazy.

I think we found the problem. And it isn’t OP’s daughter.

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Anonymous wrote:Tell her you will not pay for the application fee until she fixes it. She can fix it or find a way to pay for it herself.

Fix it according to whom???

From an ethical standpoint, the essay should be only the child’s work. Forcing a kid to take someone else’s edits or not apply is absurd and wrong.

I didn’t say force her I just wouldn’t pay for the application. Having someone proofread an essay is not unethical, many college professors will proofread essays during office hours if asked. The fact that she’s being completely stubborn and unwilling to receive feedback is why I wouldn’t pay for it. If she agreed to meet with a teacher or librarian that could make suggestions I’d be ok with that whether she takes the suggestions and applies them or not. Allowing a child to completely disregard the draft writing process for an essay when they’re applying to college just sets them up to think this will be ok in college as well. The point is to teach the lesson and help expand essay writing abilities and learn to accept feedback as part of the process, not to force changes.

It’s her essay. It’s her writing. The college is judging her.

And no, good professors don’t proofread essays. They might point out several examples of errors or poor stylistic choices and then tell the student to carefully read their paper and find similar errors and fix them. They do NOT proofread. Please do not teach your kid that she should ask her college professors to proofread her essay in office hours.

Signed, a writing professor

The good ones will. If they don’t most campuses also have writing centers.

Writing centers, yes. Asking your lit prof to proofread your essay? No, wtf.

OP, are you going to control every aspect of her application? Decide now what control you need and set boundaries with her about what you’re going to insist on if you’re going to pay her app fees. I let my parents/sister proofread my essays… but then ignored some of their feedback. I’m sure my parents felt as you did; glad they didn’t make a huge fuss about it. I got in almost everywhere I applied, imperfect essays notwithstanding.

I had many professors in undergraduate and graduate schools ask to proofread larger assignments, often creating a writing process as part of the assignment. FWIW, I never used a writing center, always got the highest grades on writing assignments, and my thesis advisor said my first draft was better than most published articles in the professional journal he was editor for. He still made me fix it at least 20 times because there’s always room for improvements. Ten years later I heard they were using my final thesis as an example in one of the classes. Out of thousands of examples they picked two, and mine was one of them. That’s what happens when a good writer meets a better writer and engages in the writing process.

So I didn’t really need the help but learned a lot through all the feedback. I just can’t understand how you think this is so out there. How does anyone become a better writer, especially when dealing with a professional field of study that has very specific writing guidelines, if there isn’t guidance given along the way? Maybe for a 2-page essay on a random book that’s not necessary, but for major assignments written in specific formats to be used in your professional career how would you skip that? It’s asinine really to think someone would go through 4-8 years of college without this expectation.

Maybe we just had very different majors.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell her you will not pay for the application fee until she fixes it. She can fix it or find a way to pay for it herself.

Fix it according to whom???

From an ethical standpoint, the essay should be only the child’s work. Forcing a kid to take someone else’s edits or not apply is absurd and wrong.

I didn’t say force her I just wouldn’t pay for the application. Having someone proofread an essay is not unethical, many college professors will proofread essays during office hours if asked. The fact that she’s being completely stubborn and unwilling to receive feedback is why I wouldn’t pay for it. If she agreed to meet with a teacher or librarian that could make suggestions I’d be ok with that whether she takes the suggestions and applies them or not. Allowing a child to completely disregard the draft writing process for an essay when they’re applying to college just sets them up to think this will be ok in college as well. The point is to teach the lesson and help expand essay writing abilities and learn to accept feedback as part of the process, not to force changes.

It’s her essay. It’s her writing. The college is judging her.

And no, good professors don’t proofread essays. They might point out several examples of errors or poor stylistic choices and then tell the student to carefully read their paper and find similar errors and fix them. They do NOT proofread. Please do not teach your kid that she should ask her college professors to proofread her essay in office hours.

Signed, a writing professor

The good ones will. If they don’t most campuses also have writing centers.

Writing centers, yes. Asking your lit prof to proofread your essay? No, wtf.

OP, are you going to control every aspect of her application? Decide now what control you need and set boundaries with her about what you’re going to insist on if you’re going to pay her app fees. I let my parents/sister proofread my essays… but then ignored some of their feedback. I’m sure my parents felt as you did; glad they didn’t make a huge fuss about it. I got in almost everywhere I applied, imperfect essays notwithstanding.

My DC definitely got feedback about essays before submission from professors. It was very beneficial and DC made significant progress with writing quality because of it. Wtf is wrong with getting instruction from professional educators like professors?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell her you will not pay for the application fee until she fixes it. She can fix it or find a way to pay for it herself.

Fix it according to whom???

From an ethical standpoint, the essay should be only the child’s work. Forcing a kid to take someone else’s edits or not apply is absurd and wrong.

I didn’t say force her I just wouldn’t pay for the application. Having someone proofread an essay is not unethical, many college professors will proofread essays during office hours if asked. The fact that she’s being completely stubborn and unwilling to receive feedback is why I wouldn’t pay for it. If she agreed to meet with a teacher or librarian that could make suggestions I’d be ok with that whether she takes the suggestions and applies them or not. Allowing a child to completely disregard the draft writing process for an essay when they’re applying to college just sets them up to think this will be ok in college as well. The point is to teach the lesson and help expand essay writing abilities and learn to accept feedback as part of the process, not to force changes.

It’s her essay. It’s her writing. The college is judging her.

And no, good professors don’t proofread essays. They might point out several examples of errors or poor stylistic choices and then tell the student to carefully read their paper and find similar errors and fix them. They do NOT proofread. Please do not teach your kid that she should ask her college professors to proofread her essay in office hours.

Signed, a writing professor

The good ones will. If they don’t most campuses also have writing centers.

Writing centers, yes. Asking your lit prof to proofread your essay? No, wtf.

OP, are you going to control every aspect of her application? Decide now what control you need and set boundaries with her about what you’re going to insist on if you’re going to pay her app fees. I let my parents/sister proofread my essays… but then ignored some of their feedback. I’m sure my parents felt as you did; glad they didn’t make a huge fuss about it. I got in almost everywhere I applied, imperfect essays notwithstanding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if the essay is awful, i wouldn't want to spend the money to apply.

if kid doesn't want you to edit, can kid get a teacher to edit it?

let her pay the app fee that is going to be wasted.

No She doesn’t want a teacher and turned down a close relative also, I feel she is just stubborn and lazy.

If she’s “stubborn and lazy,” how is she in a position to apply to some selective schools?

Hire a great admissions counselor with great people skills

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell her you will not pay for the application fee until she fixes it. She can fix it or find a way to pay for it herself.

Fix it according to whom???

From an ethical standpoint, the essay should be only the child’s work. Forcing a kid to take someone else’s edits or not apply is absurd and wrong.

I didn’t say force her I just wouldn’t pay for the application. Having someone proofread an essay is not unethical, many college professors will proofread essays during office hours if asked. The fact that she’s being completely stubborn and unwilling to receive feedback is why I wouldn’t pay for it. If she agreed to meet with a teacher or librarian that could make suggestions I’d be ok with that whether she takes the suggestions and applies them or not. Allowing a child to completely disregard the draft writing process for an essay when they’re applying to college just sets them up to think this will be ok in college as well. The point is to teach the lesson and help expand essay writing abilities and learn to accept feedback as part of the process, not to force changes.

It’s her essay. It’s her writing. The college is judging her.

And no, good professors don’t proofread essays. They might point out several examples of errors or poor stylistic choices and then tell the student to carefully read their paper and find similar errors and fix them. They do NOT proofread. Please do not teach your kid that she should ask her college professors to proofread her essay in office hours.

Signed, a writing professor

The good ones will. If they don’t most campuses also have writing centers.

I have a background in journalism and am a strong writer and my DC never wants my feedback on anything to do with writing. I had DC work with test prep tutor to brainstorm essay idea and provide some editing feedback (but not make the edits). The essay ended up being 100% DC’s idea and words and was not what I would’ve written or how I would’ve written it but that’s the point. It showed DC’s authentic voice.