Anonymous wrote:Ukraine is older than Russia

Or the USSR

Ukraine is older than Russia

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the obituary in foreignpolicy.com, his grandparents were Ukranian. Maybe they were Russian-Ukranian; the article doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

It was the same thing pretty much, back in the day. Western Ukraine was different but they were pretty marginal. Mainstream Ukraine didn’t try so hard to show they weren’t Russian. I am not saying it was wrong or right, I am just saying it didn’t really matter

I’m not sure either but agree that there was a lot of intermixing back in the day. One of the Russian comedians I watched before the invasion had a Ukrainian grandmother and went to HS in Ukraine even after the split. If you watch the zelensky show, it’s almost exclusively in Russian and there’s a lot cult jokes about Ukrainians not speaking Ukrainian well, and also about Russian last names versus Ukrainian. Of course that doesn’t justify the invasion. It doesn’t matter how many Spanish speakers there are in Arizona—we’d be pretty pissed if Mexico invaded!

Not to be an apologist for Russia, but there always is trouble when you put a border in a place that has never had a border. Ukraine is fairly ‘young’ in the sense that before this century it was only mentioned in the context of USSR or Russia. It’s borders were created based on provincial lines, which were never drawn with the idea of creating an independent nation that the world would come to know.
During the last century there was massive movement of population too. More than during any other time in history

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the obituary in foreignpolicy.com, his grandparents were Ukranian. Maybe they were Russian-Ukranian; the article doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

It was the same thing pretty much, back in the day. Western Ukraine was different but they were pretty marginal. Mainstream Ukraine didn’t try so hard to show they weren’t Russian. I am not saying it was wrong or right, I am just saying it didn’t really matter

I’m not sure either but agree that there was a lot of intermixing back in the day. One of the Russian comedians I watched before the invasion had a Ukrainian grandmother and went to HS in Ukraine even after the split. If you watch the zelensky show, it’s almost exclusively in Russian and there’s a lot cult jokes about Ukrainians not speaking Ukrainian well, and also about Russian last names versus Ukrainian. Of course that doesn’t justify the invasion. It doesn’t matter how many Spanish speakers there are in Arizona—we’d be pretty pissed if Mexico invaded!

Anonymous wrote:According to the obituary in foreignpolicy.com, his grandparents were Ukranian. Maybe they were Russian-Ukranian; the article doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

It was the same thing pretty much, back in the day. Western Ukraine was different but they were pretty marginal. Mainstream Ukraine didn’t try so hard to show they weren’t Russian. I am not saying it was wrong or right, I am just saying it didn’t really matter

According to the obituary in foreignpolicy.com, his grandparents were Ukranian. Maybe they were Russian-Ukranian; the article doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

I think people understimate how brave he was. It would have been so easy for him to be another Brezhnev, or Andropov, or just be a disinterested caretaker over a disintegrating empire. Or he could have just decided to rob the country blind (get while the gettings good). Or he could have tried to save it all by turning the clock back to Stalinism. (Gee, Putin has done basically all of those things!). But he tried to fix what could be fixed and when it became apparent that the system was unfixable, he stepped aside. That is astounding on so many levels. Of course he wasn’t trying to destroy the USSR—that’s what makes him so amazing.

My theory on russia and the Ukraine is the Russians, especially Soviet Russians, are like the older brother that thinks that “we’re all family and we fight but at the end of the day we all love each other” and Ukraine is the younger brother that tells everyone “my awful older brother abused me and took advantage of me for years and now doesn’t understand why I won’t go on vacation with him”. So I shout Gorbachev really got the Ukraine problem but I also don’t think he would have approved or destroying the country over a stupid macho ego play. His style was the exact opposite from Putin.

RIP Milhael Sergeiyevitch.

And fyi I ate at that Pizza Hut and the security guards there were super rude and it was generally awful. But I loved the enormous McDonald’s and the Taco Bell in the subway was like a light coming out from behind a cloud.

Anonymous wrote:

He doesn’t want it to become anything even remotely political
Though the common people don’t care one bit for Gorbie and the opposition is weak like never before

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He swallowed his pride and helped dismantle the Soviet Union. I thought he was a great man for this reason.

RIP.

Gorbachev sought to reform the USSR through perestroika and other means in the hope of salvaging the crippled economy. He wasn’t seeking to dismantle the Communist Party of the USSR itself.

Exactly. Gorbachev never wanted to abolish either the Soviet Union or the Communist Party. He merely meant to reform them. But the failed coup in 1991 left Gorbachev badly weakened and Yeltsin, originally loyal to Gorbachev but by then his enemy, greatly strengthened. Later that year, without informing Gorbachev, Yeltsin, along with the Presidents of Ukraine and Belarus, declared the Soviet Union abolished and pulled the Soviet Flag down from the Kremlin. Gorbachev never forgave Yeltsin. Gorbachev was internationally popular but was unpopular in Russia. When Gorbachev ran for President of the Russian Federation in 1996, he received only 0.51% of the vote.

The Chernobyl nuclear disaster was a death blow to the economy and the whole of USSR
Vast expanses of farm land became so contaminated that they will be unusable for several centuries.
He once said that the country was in danger of a civil war.
I was surprised when I heard that. I would have liked to know his thoughts on Ukraine now

AFAIK he supported the return/annexation of Crimea and said he would have done the same
FWIW

Foreignpolicy.com published this article / obituary about Gorbachev. I think it reads reasonably similar to what I recall of Gorbachev as reported in the media at the time.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/30/mikhail-gorbachev-death-obituary-soviet-union-cold-war-russia/

RIP Mikhail Sergeevich
I wouldn't be here, outside of the USSR, if not for Perestroika and open border, thanks to Gorbachev

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has been recent reporting that outer areas of the exclusionary zone are being reopened for agricultural uses prior to the invasion. People are living in Chernobyl and surrounding villages. Pripyat and the Red Forest are too highly contaminated for habitation or agriculture but other areas much less so. A natural ecosystem with wolves, bears, lynx, deer and other wildlife has established itself.

Chernobyl was such a political disaster for the Soviet leadership in part because of the lies that were told.

EPA is equally guilty of telling lies
The natural ecosystem with wolves is not entirely healthy, animals have deformities, cancer
The region is uninhabitable, but where else do the people have to go?

EPA equally guilty?
Uh no, comrade. Not true.

Anonymous wrote:There has been recent reporting that outer areas of the exclusionary zone are being reopened for agricultural uses prior to the invasion. People are living in Chernobyl and surrounding villages. Pripyat and the Red Forest are too highly contaminated for habitation or agriculture but other areas much less so. A natural ecosystem with wolves, bears, lynx, deer and other wildlife has established itself.

Chernobyl was such a political disaster for the Soviet leadership in part because of the lies that were told.

EPA is equally guilty of telling lies
The natural ecosystem with wolves is not entirely healthy, animals have deformities, cancer
The region is uninhabitable, but where else do the people have to go?

There has been recent reporting that outer areas of the exclusionary zone are being reopened for agricultural uses prior to the invasion. People are living in Chernobyl and surrounding villages. Pripyat and the Red Forest are too highly contaminated for habitation or agriculture but other areas much less so. A natural ecosystem with wolves, bears, lynx, deer and other wildlife has established itself.

Chernobyl was such a political disaster for the Soviet leadership in part because of the lies that were told.