Anonymous wrote:If you have to take state income tax into account when deciding where to live, you don't make enough money and I feel sorry for you.

It’s actually the other way around.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/01/06/florida-is-fast-becoming-the-second-home-for-wall-street/?sh=270c75c4443f

Here in Montgomery county, the property tax is high with high state + local income taxes, I can’t imagine a no income tax state would costs similar overall

I moved to TX from VA and pay about $3k less in total taxes (no state or personal property taxes but huge property taxes). The school district is awesome but I live in a wealthy suburb that is independent from the large nearby city. Wouldn't live here if I couldn't afford this kind of neighborhood as the state/local governments don't bother with parks, playgrounds, etc instead developers build them then your HOA cares for them. Can't imagine the poor/middle class are given much, if any, services except for public defenders and progressive DAs.

Had to laugh at the red state public transit comments above! Told coworkers I sometimes rode a bus in DC and they asked if I was poor before moving to Texas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in California and have a lot of friends from HS whose relatives moved to California during WW2 from the Midwest. Lots of them have moved to places like Texas, Tennessee, and other low/no-tax states in the past 5 years as the current generation can't afford housing and they are also politically conservative.

In short, if you're working or middle class, it's at-best a wash. At worst, you've lost money by moving to Texas or Tennessee. The services are worse. Property and ad valorem taxes are higher. Fees for anything involving the local government.

The fact of the matter is that a place like California does have a lot of good services for working and middle class families, public transport, lots of public works jobs, etc. California is always building some new massive infrastructure and there's lot of well-paying, union jobs to support those projects. Great benefits.

The only ones benefiting off no-tax states are the wealthy.

I’ve owned property in several different states, including California and Texas, and this is BS. California has high taxes and fees for *everything,* much more so than Texas. Want to rent a house? Here are all the fees you have to pay for the license. Water is incredibly expensive, not to mention fuel. It will cost hundreds, if not thousands, to comply with the brush-clearing fire ordinances & there will be a fine if you don’t do it, but there will also be a fine if you do it during the nesting season of the endangered species that *might* live in your neighborhood, so welcome to a regulatory “Catch 22.” The only way CA makes sense is if you bought decades ago and Prop 13 has limited your property tax increase. And even then, the small increases allowed every year add up. Public transport? Don’t make me laugh. If by massive public works projects, you mean the high speed train to nowhere that will never be completed, I guess you’re right. If you mean badly needed water infrastructure, you would be wrong.

Exactly. People are getting out of CA as fast as they can. Just ask UHAUL.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have to take state income tax into account when deciding where to live, you don't make enough money and I feel sorry for you.

Lol you're an idiot. Do you know what California or New York state income tax is on people making 1m+? Versus Florida or Washington?

You're still left with a LOT of money and you don't have to live in Florida.

Anonymous wrote:If you have to take state income tax into account when deciding where to live, you don't make enough money and I feel sorry for you.

Lol you're an idiot. Do you know what California or New York state income tax is on people making 1m+? Versus Florida or Washington?

I live in Washington State. We have incredible local publics and parks and no income tax. Our sales tax is high, but sales tax is regressive, so if you're mid to high income it's a "better" deal than living in a low sales tax/high income tax state. We pay car tabs but it's not much, and property tax is comparable to other areas with good schools. Overall we saved a LOT when we moved here from a high income tax east coast state.

Anonymous wrote:Did you find that your financial situation changed noticeably or not at all? I know that some states compensate for not taxing income by having high property, sales, or other taxes. DH and I are researching no-income-tax states but don’t want to make a move only to find that we’re getting squeezed by taxes everywhere else but in our earned income only to have the same net effect as if we were to stay in the DMV.

Our situation improved a lot by moving to FL, not only because of lower taxes but because of lower costs -- cheaper tuition bills for private schools, free in-state college.

If you have to take state income tax into account when deciding where to live, you don't make enough money and I feel sorry for you.

We are residents of FL for 7 months of the year and with no state income tax you get what you pay for. Public school funding is very low per student and the level of social services is very low. Where we live people are very generous regarding social services but we are in a very affluent area. 90% of the state really struggles with providing social services.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Property taxes were much, much higher and public services were nonexistent. There was also a weird attitude like, reactionary class hostility? when public services come up. Only poor people use buses, apparently, so if you think that a city of 1M+ should have public transit, the answer is GET A JOB even though you're having this discussion at work. Really toxic.

This, this, THIS. It's super toxic to be surrounded by people with this worldview.

Absolutely. People endlessly protested their property taxes, fought any public spending & then wrote huge checks for pet causes that mattered *to them*.

I'm the PP who grew up in Texas and said we had no services. Just to be perfectly transparent: I've also lived in a state with an income tax that provided no services (Oklahoma). IME the divide has been more red state/blue state than strictly taxes/no taxes. But the two highest-taxed places I've lived (NYC & DC) have always had a very obvious, visible "return" on the taxes paid. Oklahoma had a lower tax rate, but I don't know where that money went.

Many people on this thread projecting their views without appearing to have much experience...

1. Currently live in state with property taxes, income taxes, sales tax, VAT for my car, etc. its is way too many taxes for the "services" the state provides.
2. Previously lived in a no income tax state (Texas) I have property taxes and sales tax.

Here is my impression:

My property taxes are approximately the same.
My sales taxes are approximately the same.
School system in MY CURRENT SCHOOL DISTRICT of my income taxed state is a little worse than my non-tax state (Texas). This is a function of the county I chose. More "affluent" areas have a "better" school facilities but I don't know if they are any better at educating kids. It isn't because my current county/city doesn't spend very large amounts of money on education (over 50% of my property taxes are for school) its more related to the mentality of the people in my current area.

I agree that something about the calculations appear to "balance out"... when in a no-tax state I didn't get the federal deductions for state taxes... so on-balance its about the same in my case.

I grew up in Texas and moved with my then fiance to VA due to his job relocating. I was shocked how much less take home I had in Virginia, partially because of the higher taxes (state income and vehicle tax) but also that my new job (healthcare), prevailing wages for the area were about the same as my prior job but in a much higher COL area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in California and have a lot of friends from HS whose relatives moved to California during WW2 from the Midwest. Lots of them have moved to places like Texas, Tennessee, and other low/no-tax states in the past 5 years as the current generation can't afford housing and they are also politically conservative.

In short, if you're working or middle class, it's at-best a wash. At worst, you've lost money by moving to Texas or Tennessee. The services are worse. Property and ad valorem taxes are higher. Fees for anything involving the local government.

The fact of the matter is that a place like California does have a lot of good services for working and middle class families, public transport, lots of public works jobs, etc. California is always building some new massive infrastructure and there's lot of well-paying, union jobs to support those projects. Great benefits.

The only ones benefiting off no-tax states are the wealthy.

I’ve owned property in several different states, including California and Texas, and this is BS. California has high taxes and fees for *everything,* much more so than Texas. Want to rent a house? Here are all the fees you have to pay for the license. Water is incredibly expensive, not to mention fuel. It will cost hundreds, if not thousands, to comply with the brush-clearing fire ordinances & there will be a fine if you don’t do it, but there will also be a fine if you do it during the nesting season of the endangered species that *might* live in your neighborhood, so welcome to a regulatory “Catch 22.” The only way CA makes sense is if you bought decades ago and Prop 13 has limited your property tax increase. And even then, the small increases allowed every year add up. Public transport? Don’t make me laugh. If by massive public works projects, you mean the high speed train to nowhere that will never be completed, I guess you’re right. If you mean badly needed water infrastructure, you would be wrong.

THIS. California bled us dry. We are 5th generation Californians. Everyone from our generation has moved out because it’s not affordable at all.

Also, Tennessee and Texas are not the Midwest. Might want to spend some time learning basic US geography.

PPP said their friends moved *to* California from the Midwest, and have since moved out to Texas or Tennessee. Skitt's Law in full effect.