No but people still judge you. That can be hard.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm in that sandiwch period where I started seeing the therapist because I was just exhausted by the demands of my aging parents and adult children. We have postponed an anniversary trip several times because someone always needed something. Last time, it was our daughter needing help moving the weekend we planned to go away. (We were going to combine a vacation with a work trip for me and I ended up going on my own while he helped her move.)

I thought I needed help mostly with how to help my parents without feeling all of the negative emotions, but she is suggesting that I need to prioritize myself more both from the parents and from the kids.

I do think the enmeshment may be hurting our kids too , like we shield the kids from the negative consequences of their bad decisions. I am worried that two of the children are not in relationships and wonder if they will ever get married.

We also found out that one child is gay and I'm from a really strict Evangelical background and am struggling with that. I think the therapist is concerned here that I seem to be deriving too much of my self worth (at this stage) from having a family that appears perfect to outsiders. She said something about 'kids being a reflection of yourself' that really hit home. I think maybe I'm keeping them from figuring out who they really are.

Being gay doesn't make a person any less perfect than if they're straight.

codependency was the inability to tolerate others' negative feelings

You have to be willing to have Mommy mad at you. Or your beloved daughter. That's how adults behave. It's an adult relationship. Ideally between peers. People can get mad and sometimes they shouldn't get mad. That's not your problem. When people respect each other as equals, adults get over being mad when some time passes and move on.

Anonymous wrote:From your update, I think you're a good, caring parent who needs a break and the ability to say no to the kids once in a while. My parents would also do everything to help me move in my 20s, but not at the expense of an already planned trip, nor would I want them to.

Right now, your actions are telling your kids that their needs always come first. That's a fine message when they were young and dependent on you, but not when they're fully functioning adults. You need to transition to the message that you have needs too, and you will still be there for them, within reason. Plan that anniversary trip (or any trip) and go enjoy it. Your kids will be fine, and it's high time that they learn the critical life skill of problem solving without mom and dad.

I agree. It sounds to me like you have a great relationship with your kids. They are flourishing as young adults outside the home but still leaning on you. I don’t know that you should have cancelled your vacation plans but that was you and husband’s decision and you can decide differently. Asking parents for car shopping advice seems normal to me and not codependent.

The multiple phone calls per day times three kids may be overwhelming you, so I wonder how many of these are initiated by you and if so how long do the calls last. I hope you are not placing or answering calls at inconvenient times for yourself.

I think as another poster said, you and DH should carve out time for yourselves and then stick to it. No special announcements necessary. Go out to dinner, etc and put the cell phones down while you enjoy each others company.

Anonymous wrote:Speaking on the phone multiple times a day seems crazy intense to me. That's way too much. Helping them with big life things like buying a car is good, but the constant contact is a bit crazy

This is what stood out to me also. When I was in my 20s it was normal to talk once every one or two weeks. Multiple daily calls is bad. Was it like this when your kids were in college too? You are overly enmeshed.

I think codependency is when one person in the relationship has an unhealthy need to be needed by the other person and they enable that to an extreme degree. It makes them feel good to be so needed even though it's not good for the other person to rely on them too much.

When you recognize that this is what you are doing you should rethink that interaction with the adult child. Changing your plans to help another adult move, as if they couldn't pull it off without you, is a good example. Some of the needs you are meeting could and should be met by the adult child themself or they should have other supports besides you.

From your update, I think you're a good, caring parent who needs a break and the ability to say no to the kids once in a while. My parents would also do everything to help me move in my 20s, but not at the expense of an already planned trip, nor would I want them to.

Right now, your actions are telling your kids that their needs always come first. That's a fine message when they were young and dependent on you, but not when they're fully functioning adults. You need to transition to the message that you have needs too, and you will still be there for them, within reason. Plan that anniversary trip (or any trip) and go enjoy it. Your kids will be fine, and it's high time that they learn the critical life skill of problem solving without mom and dad.

There is no rule book about how much closeness is too much.

I think you are doing something right that your adult children want you in their lives.

I also default to putting my kid first (which I did for decades as a single parent). Maybe your therapist is saying that you have needs that are not being met. Trim your devotion to others (when it is optional), so that you get some self care. Sounds very healthy, but it may feel weird at first.

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are out of the nest so they need to fly on their own. Cancelling a vacation to help an adult move is crazy. Going car shopping with them is unnecessary. You can certainly give them advice but they need to make the decision.

I agree about cancelling the vacation but not about going car shopping. Most people need someone to come along to help them sift through all the info and figure out what makes the most sense. I think counting on parents for that is totally fine.

I've had friends who were like this with their families. I really envied them. Your therapist sounds sterile and cold.

Your kids are out of the nest so they need to fly on their own. Cancelling a vacation to help an adult move is crazy. Going car shopping with them is unnecessary. You can certainly give them advice but they need to make the decision.

My brother and sister are very enmeshed with my parents and it’s much more complicated/negative than what you describe. Just tons of drama and my parents lack boundaries, especially my mom. They both insert themselves into my siblings’ marriages and their relationship with their kids. I think it’s detrimental for everyone.

My sister recently decided the situation wasn’t serving her and has started withdrawing. It’s angering my brother and making my parents sad, but she’s just trying to set clearer boundaries. I think the fact that her boundaries are upsetting everyone so much is a strong indicator that the situation was unhealthy. Also, we are all much older than your kids— all in our 40s with families of our own.

All of this is to say that what you describe doesn’t sound unhealthy as long as everyone involved is okay with it and no one gets angry/resentful when someone takes more space. Like if you aren’t available for phone calls or can’t help someone move because if a conflict, do they get mad? Conversely, if one of your kids doesn’t call for a few days or chooses to skip a family holiday or event to do something important to them, do you respect their choice or do you try to guilt or manipulate them into calling or staying with the family.

In a healthy relationship, if someone needs space, it’s viewed calmly and respectfully. It’s when there’s a lot of guilt, coercion, and intense expectations that you need to worry about enmeshment.

I once heard that codependency was the inability to tolerate others' negative feelings. I think there is a lot more to codependency but I also think that's a helpful way to think about it.

I would highly recommend the book "set boundaries, find peace." I know it's kind of a pain to read books and you might not be very motivated to follow my advice, but I think it will solve a lot of your problems here.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm in that sandiwch period where I started seeing the therapist because I was just exhausted by the demands of my aging parents and adult children. We have postponed an anniversary trip several times because someone always needed something. Last time, it was our daughter needing help moving the weekend we planned to go away. (We were going to combine a vacation with a work trip for me and I ended up going on my own while he helped her move.)

I thought I needed help mostly with how to help my parents without feeling all of the negative emotions, but she is suggesting that I need to prioritize myself more both from the parents and from the kids.

I do think the enmeshment may be hurting our kids too , like we shield the kids from the negative consequences of their bad decisions. I am worried that two of the children are not in relationships and wonder if they will ever get married.

We also found out that one child is gay and I'm from a really strict Evangelical background and am struggling with that. I think the therapist is concerned here that I seem to be deriving too much of my self worth (at this stage) from having a family that appears perfect to outsiders. She said something about 'kids being a reflection of yourself' that really hit home. I think maybe I'm keeping them from figuring out who they really are.

How would she respond (or how did she respond) if you were to say “I’m sorry, we can’t help that weekend. We’re going to be out of town.”

Anonymous wrote:I was raised by abusive parents who had a bad marriage and possibly some mental Illness,my dad was an alcoholic etc and I think as a Result,I may have overprioritized having a perfect family. I wanted to give the kids everything that I never had. Lately however we’ve been wondering if we are just too and mashed when the children, all of them are now in their mid-20s. We still seem to spend most our time helping people move, and doing things like going car shopping with them, etc. two of them live not too far from us while the third lives further away. At one point we were speaking to each of them on the phone multiple times a day. Lately I’ve been trying to put some distance between Us and encouraging them to solve more of their own problems. Does anyone one else struggle with this? My husband and I are trying to make our relationship a priority and even to feel comfortable spending money on ourselves rather than on the children, but it still feels weird

Dh and I have similar backgrounds to you and our kids are you g teens. We struggle with perfectionism and dh always thinks we aren't doing enough for the kids. In rational moments, we realize we are perhaps doing too much. Our desire to not mess our kids up like we were leads us to be one blade short of a helicopter. The only thing which helps us back off is the desire to launch them and have time together, just us two. All that to say, I might be in your position in 10 years, if I don't change. We do our children no favors being enmeshed in their lives, whether they're children or adults. People like us struggle because we never had a normal, healthy childhood.