I really wish the southern states would legislate this problem away or even incentivize it.
If we all donated money so that gets in the south could pay you $50 cash on the barrel for slaying/neutering your pet, how much of an impact would that make? $100? $1000?
What about requiring all dogs to be chipped, and if your dog is found wandering around as a stray, you get a fine of $100? $200? It’s just ridiculous that people who are responsible pet owners are guilted into taking dogs where the problem is created by a set of irresponsible owners. Why can’t we just carrot and stick people into being more responsible?

When presented with two equal choices, I try to choose the more ethical choice. And so if I had the chance to adopt a puppy from a shelter that wouldn't bother my allergies, or get one from a breeder, I would have gone with the former of course. But of course, I didn't have this choice.

Before we decided on the breeder I spent a weekend at my sister's with her dog and I determined that I really couldn't risk going with a non-"hypoallergenic" dog.

It's great for people to bring awareness to dogs that truly do need to be rescued (assuming they haven't been purchased as the article suggests), but I don't think there's a person who ALWAYS makes the more ethical choice (by only shopping at locally owned businesses, not buying new items when used are available, never taking the car when you could bike, walk, or take public transport, etc.), and so it's perhaps a little silly to imbue a single decision with a ton of moral judgment.

Anonymous wrote:This whole article is a great read, but this bit in particular is relevant to this discussion:

https://aeon.co/essays/dogs-are-symbolic-containers-of-human-hopes-desires-and-vices

'...there is a grey area between rescuing and trading. In the US, rescues in the Northeast, where pet demand is high, are known to buy animals from shelters in the South, and transport them to where the buyers are. That some rescues essentially ‘clean out’ shelter stock so others can’t find pets is a knock-on effect. The ‘adopt, don’t shop’ message implies that it is easy enough to adopt a dog, though plenty of potential owners have found themselves stymied by the increasing demands imposed by rescue groups (home checks, references, even credit reports). Rescues can make these demands precisely because there are more people clamouring to adopt than there are dogs available.

The symbolism of the ‘rescue dog’ is that the owners can feel virtuous that they pulled this dog away from the hell of impending death at the pound, or the terrible life of a stray. In fact, because there just aren’t enough dogs at the pound to fulfil the market, some rescues even buy dogs from breeders – especially breed-specific rescues. While they might present this as ‘saving’ a dog from life with a breeder, they are in fact bidding up the price for dogs at auction – and, as anyone with a clue of economics would expect, incentivising more people to breed dogs. The price the rescues ask for dogs (whether they label it as a ‘rehoming fee’ or whatever, it is a sale price) has climbed with demand, with some asking four figures for these allegedly unwanted dogs.

Yet for the end owner (or consumer) of the dog, having the rescue serve as a middleman means they don’t feel they have bought from a puppy mill. It’s a win-win for the dog owner: they get the particular breed they want by going to a specialised rescue, and they get the moral value of ‘not having bought from a breeder’. '

I live in the South and volunteered with a rescue who shipped shelter dogs up north. No, it’s absolutely not true that the shelters are totally cleared out and no one local can find a dog. There are so many dogs here that the shelter has stopped taking them in, and people just dump them outside. There are strays everywhere. You could clear out the shelter and refill it to twice capacity within a day.

And people here buy dogs from backyard breeders regardless of whether shelter dogs are available. I can walk around my neighborhood and find backyard bred puppies every day.

Anonymous wrote:This whole article is a great read, but this bit in particular is relevant to this discussion:

https://aeon.co/essays/dogs-are-symbolic-containers-of-human-hopes-desires-and-vices

'...there is a grey area between rescuing and trading. In the US, rescues in the Northeast, where pet demand is high, are known to buy animals from shelters in the South, and transport them to where the buyers are. That some rescues essentially ‘clean out’ shelter stock so others can’t find pets is a knock-on effect. The ‘adopt, don’t shop’ message implies that it is easy enough to adopt a dog, though plenty of potential owners have found themselves stymied by the increasing demands imposed by rescue groups (home checks, references, even credit reports). Rescues can make these demands precisely because there are more people clamouring to adopt than there are dogs available.

The symbolism of the ‘rescue dog’ is that the owners can feel virtuous that they pulled this dog away from the hell of impending death at the pound, or the terrible life of a stray. In fact, because there just aren’t enough dogs at the pound to fulfil the market, some rescues even buy dogs from breeders – especially breed-specific rescues. While they might present this as ‘saving’ a dog from life with a breeder, they are in fact bidding up the price for dogs at auction – and, as anyone with a clue of economics would expect, incentivising more people to breed dogs. The price the rescues ask for dogs (whether they label it as a ‘rehoming fee’ or whatever, it is a sale price) has climbed with demand, with some asking four figures for these allegedly unwanted dogs.

Yet for the end owner (or consumer) of the dog, having the rescue serve as a middleman means they don’t feel they have bought from a puppy mill. It’s a win-win for the dog owner: they get the particular breed they want by going to a specialised rescue, and they get the moral value of ‘not having bought from a breeder’. '

I mean of course this is accurate. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see it.

This whole article is a great read, but this bit in particular is relevant to this discussion:

https://aeon.co/essays/dogs-are-symbolic-containers-of-human-hopes-desires-and-vices

'...there is a grey area between rescuing and trading. In the US, rescues in the Northeast, where pet demand is high, are known to buy animals from shelters in the South, and transport them to where the buyers are. That some rescues essentially ‘clean out’ shelter stock so others can’t find pets is a knock-on effect. The ‘adopt, don’t shop’ message implies that it is easy enough to adopt a dog, though plenty of potential owners have found themselves stymied by the increasing demands imposed by rescue groups (home checks, references, even credit reports). Rescues can make these demands precisely because there are more people clamouring to adopt than there are dogs available.

The symbolism of the ‘rescue dog’ is that the owners can feel virtuous that they pulled this dog away from the hell of impending death at the pound, or the terrible life of a stray. In fact, because there just aren’t enough dogs at the pound to fulfil the market, some rescues even buy dogs from breeders – especially breed-specific rescues. While they might present this as ‘saving’ a dog from life with a breeder, they are in fact bidding up the price for dogs at auction – and, as anyone with a clue of economics would expect, incentivising more people to breed dogs. The price the rescues ask for dogs (whether they label it as a ‘rehoming fee’ or whatever, it is a sale price) has climbed with demand, with some asking four figures for these allegedly unwanted dogs.

Yet for the end owner (or consumer) of the dog, having the rescue serve as a middleman means they don’t feel they have bought from a puppy mill. It’s a win-win for the dog owner: they get the particular breed they want by going to a specialised rescue, and they get the moral value of ‘not having bought from a breeder’. '

The amount of mental energy and gymnastics people do over dogs these days is really not to be believed. They are animals. Point blank. Just like the chickens, cows, and pigs that most of us eat on a daily basis. And yet people will lose their minds over the treatment of dogs and how they should be bred or not and blah blah blah. I feel deeply sorry for anyone who has wasted their life working on "animal rescue" or the like. Please, fine a life doing something to benefit your fellow humans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t want a pit bull mix, go to a breeder

There are breed specific rescues.

Yep our neighbor has a retired racing greyhound. Great dog.

I got a Cavalier King Charles from a breed-specific rescue. He was an absolute angel!! RIP Buddy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t want a pit bull mix, go to a breeder

There are breed specific rescues.

Yep our neighbor has a retired racing greyhound. Great dog.

The goal is to get a dog you spend time researching is a good fit for your family and your lifestyle. Tho breeder dogs don’t always match that, they more likely than not will. The problem is pit bulls are in the shelter NOW and will be killed NOW if we don’t rescue them. So people feel bad and put pressure on others to rescue. But that’s a terrible idea. Cause that dog is with you for 10-15 years and it will be awful if it’s not a good fit. Take it from me.

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I love a good mutt. Some doodles are great.

It feels like the backyards of SC and GA are creating hordes of pit/hound puppies, that then get shipped north by rescues and “rescue only” people fiercely defend them as ideal pets. But those same people complain about doodles as terrible dogs or irresponsible breeders.

It would make more sense to me if rescues said “look, these dogs were bred irresponsibly and we wish they hadnt been, and we’re campaigning for xyz laws to reduce the supply. But since these already exist, let’s adopt them. Then if we succeed, we’ll replace the supply with….

?? This is my question.

Yea, this is correct. The problem is that no breeder is going to admit they're the type who should be outlawed. They all think they're responsible. There's was a woman in my social circle who was exactly that - bred her dogs (bully breeds mostly), sold them in parking lots, and claimed she was a responsible, good breeder. She also goes through dogs like candy - gets a puppy, keeps it chained up in the backyard, gets overwhelmed when it's an unsocialized adolescent, then gets rid of it.

Also, I live in an area that is overrun with unwanted dogs. People don't get them fixed, they breed them intentionally, they keep them in the backyard then dump them when it's too much work. I see stray dogs running around on a weekly basis. We're not going to run out of dogs needing homes anytime soon.

But, I think there needs to be greater focus on legislation. People should be required to have a license to breed dogs. ALL dogs should be required to be fixed before being placed in homes, like ferrets are. Honestly I even think people should need a license to even own a dog.

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I love a good mutt. Some doodles are great.

It feels like the backyards of SC and GA are creating hordes of pit/hound puppies, that then get shipped north by rescues and “rescue only” people fiercely defend them as ideal pets. But those same people complain about doodles as terrible dogs or irresponsible breeders.

It would make more sense to me if rescues said “look, these dogs were bred irresponsibly and we wish they hadnt been, and we’re campaigning for xyz laws to reduce the supply. But since these already exist, let’s adopt them. Then if we succeed, we’ll replace the supply with….

?? This is my question.

Yes, of course you are right. It is common sense. A lot of the rescue people seem to want to believe rescue dogs spontaneously generate like cabbages, not from puppy mills and backyard breeders, because they don’t want to acknowledge that rescue creates a market for puppy mills and backyard breeders. It is a bizarre disconnect.

Anonymous wrote:Okay, sure, I’ll be pro-breeder once there’s no dogs available from rescues or at the thousands of animal shelters and humane societies across the country. What’s your point?

NP. You are already pro-breeder. You are just pro-puppy mill versus pro-good breeder. Where do you think rescue dogs come from?

This is the OP. I love a good mutt. Some doodles are great.

It feels like the backyards of SC and GA are creating hordes of pit/hound puppies, that then get shipped north by rescues and “rescue only” people fiercely defend them as ideal pets. But those same people complain about doodles as terrible dogs or irresponsible breeders.

It would make more sense to me if rescues said “look, these dogs were bred irresponsibly and we wish they hadnt been, and we’re campaigning for xyz laws to reduce the supply. But since these already exist, let’s adopt them. Then if we succeed, we’ll replace the supply with….

?? This is my question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t want a pit bull mix, go to a breeder

We recently adopted a super sweet lab/aussie shepherd mix from a Petsmart. My co-workers both have designer doodles the same age and our rescue has a much, much better temperament. I'm so glad we didn't go the breeder route. She's the perfect mix of kind and smart. My co-workers' doodles are a combo of anxious, neurotic and destructive.

t

Doodles are beloved of people who think there's an effortless form of dog ownership. You just need to find the right breed! And then they're shocked to learn that all dogs need training, exercise, grooming, socialization, etc.

Oh come on, generalize much? This drives me crazy. I am asthmatic, grew up with a doodle mix that was the result of an accidental backyard love connection, and rescued two doodle mixes years ago. When our last one passed away (at age 15), I looked for 6 months for a rescue doodle that didn't shed and I wouldn't have an allergic reaction to who was younger than 10 years old and didn't have major health issues. After a while, I gave up and put a deposit down with a reputable breeder and waited for six months or so for our girl. I continued to look at rescues (pre-covid) and had no luck. However, we lucked out with our girl -- she is super chill, fun, and was the easiest dog I've ever had to train.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t want a pit bull mix, go to a breeder

We recently adopted a super sweet lab/aussie shepherd mix from a Petsmart. My co-workers both have designer doodles the same age and our rescue has a much, much better temperament. I'm so glad we didn't go the breeder route. She's the perfect mix of kind and smart. My co-workers' doodles are a combo of anxious, neurotic and destructive.

t

Doodles are beloved of people who think there's an effortless form of dog ownership. You just need to find the right breed! And then they're shocked to learn that all dogs need training, exercise, grooming, socialization, etc.