Anonymous wrote:If we shouldn't fat shame then what's the answer? Fat acceptance is not

Why is it so important to you that society make fat people feel bad about themselves?

I have one daughter who is fat. A second daughter who is skinny. They both ate the same things, drank the same milk, do the same things. But one is significantly heavier than the other. They are both not even teenagers yet. Explain that to me - one is just weak-willed? Eats more for some primal reason? Or perhaps there is some other biological mechanism that causes younger daughter's body to hold on to energy stores more than the older one?

When we go to the doctor, though, it is often mentioned that she needs to watch what she eats. I watch - I don't see her eat more or worse than the other one.

Excellent article! Thanks for sharing!

What about cutting ALL the subsidies to the wheat and corn producers and moving them to others? For example, I spent $22 on wild salmon yesterday. What about making the salmon $5 and the twinkies $55?

If we shouldn't fat shame then what's the answer? Fat acceptance is not

0.8% of obese women will successfully remain normal weight. (Even less for men.)

1/3 of alcoholics successfully beat it. (https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/2001-2002-survey-finds-many-recover-alcoholism-researchers-identify-factors-associated-abstinent-and)

3/4 of drug addicts recover. (https://www.npr.org/2022/01/15/1071282194/addiction-substance-recovery-treatment)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

I skimmed the article. Agree that fat people should not be treated poorly by their doctors.

However, everything that I’ve seen on this topic says that when obese people are put into controlled environments, and what they eat is strictly controlled to what is prescribed by their doctor, they do lose weight 99% of the time. Of course, that is not a realistic solution for these societal problems. However, pretending that the causes of obesity are a mystery is not helpful in thinking about solutions for this issue.

here are some possible policy changes:

single payer/medicare for all.a non profit health care system is more incentivized to prevent disease than treat it.

require grams of added sugar as well as calories at fast food restaurants

ban HFCS and high inflammatory oils

ban/limit harmful pesticides in food

shift farm aid toward organic and local growers and producers

ditch the food pyramid (the base is carbs, with no explanation that there's a world of difference between different forms); teach the new pyramid (vegetables/plants on the base)

walking/biking/pedestrian centers and expanding public transportation (i walked much more when I was living in a city with metro, now I have to consciously take walks)

nutrition/health education in school that extends to families at home (michelle obama's programs?)

more WIC programs for organic/small farms

more federal research dollars into research on nutrition diet and not drugs--that being said, offer obesity drugs rather than 'willpower/diet' prescriptions for obese people who want to lose weight.

Great article, very enlightening. The only thing I didn’t agree with is that Black women are more likely to become depressed due to stigma about their weight. As a black woman, I’d say it’s the complete opposite. Being thick is celebrated in the black community. Not to say it’s a healthy mindset, but that’s just the way it is.

Now there could be a more nuanced study about black women who live in major cities & work around mostly white peers feeling more stigma about their weight or body type - but that’s a different conversation.

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, the societal pressure not to be fat does keep a good portion of the people who are not overweight or not obese from sliding up to the next level. There are many, many overweight and obese MC and UMC people who can afford heavier food, take the stairs, and probably even have exercise equipment gathering dust.

Here’s the problem…it’s inconvenient to walk or ride your bike instead of driving, if you aren’t into exercise it’s a chore. For food, products with highly processed carbs and sugar taste good. Eating is an enjoyable experience that is convenient and accessible. There are so many flavor and food options that it’s hard not to enjoy it. The only incentive people have to not get fat is societal pressure because let’s be honest the concern about distant future health issues does not push people to restrict themselves.

Short of extremely limiting food options so eating on a daily basis is boring and less appetizing, there isn’t much policy people can do. Monetary incentives might do it for some but probably not most.

This is true for me. I have never gotten the endorphin rush people talk about via exercise, it is just shit I don't want to do. I have done work arounds by walking the mile to and from the metro daily to go to work though during the pandemic that was cut short and now I am fulltime WFH so no commute at all. I take dance classes and stuff like that where it is fun to me so I am not thinking about it as exercise for the sake of exercise. But the people who can just push themselves to do it make it a moral failing if you can't just bite down on a leather strap and push through to avoid being fat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a "skinny" person and probably get some very small fraction of body shaming in people telling me I'm too thin, offering me cookies, etc. I eat healthy and I eat a lot, and I also want to be left alone. But bullies will bully you for whatever they can articulate, and there are a surprisingly high number of the.

While I really like the article, I really wish we would stop talking about bullies so much (who are unlikely to change after reading the article, no matter how factual it is) and start integrating healthy food and habits into society so they are accessible. It is very hard to choose healthy foods when they are either MUCH more expensive or MUCH more time consuming to prepare. It's also harder to walk or bike to work in most of the USA. Systemically removing sugar and processed foods from the food chain and building livable cities is nowhere in the policy conversation. We are adding bike lanes, which is great, but that's about the only real initiative I've seen in major American cities. I am surprised insurance companies aren't lobbying for these changes.

Your last paragraph is so on point.

I currently live in London and my default mode of getting around is on foot and bike and I have 15-20 minute walks and bikes at least 2x a day. I love it.

We are planning to move back to the US to a car centric city and my DH (who struggles to keep under the “morbidly obese” category) are already talking about how much harder it will be to manage our weights!in the US. Portion sizes, too many additives to processed foods. All of it.

Watching my DH has been extremely eye opening.

I have stopped using my car for local trips. I ride my bike or walk now and it has changed my body and weight. I really think this is key to creating a healthy and sustainable lifestyle but sadly most Americans won't adopt these types of changes.

I agree with your sentiment, but not the judgment at the end. Where do you live? How easy is it for most Americans to adopt these types of changes? Can they safely bike or walk for local trips? Are there sidewalks? Bike lanes? We continue to build community after community where there is no choice but to rely on cars for almost everything. There's little open space within walking distance to many communities. Living within walking distance of a school doesn't guarantee that your kid will be assigned to that school. Instead of blaming people for being unhealthy, why can't we think about big picture changes to help more people adopt healthy lifestyles?

Anonymous wrote:Great article. This is something I hope everyone here reads. Thank you for posting.

I wasn’t surprised to see that it was was written by Michael Hobbs. I love listening to his podcast “Maintenance Phase” that he co-hosts with Aubrey Gordon. It is so informative and has shifted my beliefs about obesity and nutrition.

I clicked in here because I was sure this was a reference to that podcast.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, the societal pressure not to be fat does keep a good portion of the people who are not overweight or not obese from sliding up to the next level. There are many, many overweight and obese MC and UMC people who can afford heavier food, take the stairs, and probably even have exercise equipment gathering dust.

Here’s the problem…it’s inconvenient to walk or ride your bike instead of driving, if you aren’t into exercise it’s a chore. For food, products with highly processed carbs and sugar taste good. Eating is an enjoyable experience that is convenient and accessible. There are so many flavor and food options that it’s hard not to enjoy it. The only incentive people have to not get fat is societal pressure because let’s be honest the concern about distant future health issues does not push people to restrict themselves.

Short of extremely limiting food options so eating on a daily basis is boring and less appetizing, there isn’t much policy people can do. Monetary incentives might do it for some but probably not most.

You are entirely wrong. Fat shaming—which is what you are talking about—does not work. Period. It does not stop obesity. It does not cause weight loss. It does not work at all, and it’s time we we as a society recognized that.

To be perfectly honest, I work out and limit my calorie intake because with don’t want to get fat. I don’t enjoy it at all, but do it to avoid excess weight. Doesn’t that kind of mean the shame around being fat does work for some people?

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, the societal pressure not to be fat does keep a good portion of the people who are not overweight or not obese from sliding up to the next level. There are many, many overweight and obese MC and UMC people who can afford heavier food, take the stairs, and probably even have exercise equipment gathering dust.

Here’s the problem…it’s inconvenient to walk or ride your bike instead of driving, if you aren’t into exercise it’s a chore. For food, products with highly processed carbs and sugar taste good. Eating is an enjoyable experience that is convenient and accessible. There are so many flavor and food options that it’s hard not to enjoy it. The only incentive people have to not get fat is societal pressure because let’s be honest the concern about distant future health issues does not push people to restrict themselves.

Short of extremely limiting food options so eating on a daily basis is boring and less appetizing, there isn’t much policy people can do. Monetary incentives might do it for some but probably not most.

You are entirely wrong. Fat shaming—which is what you are talking about—does not work. Period. It does not stop obesity. It does not cause weight loss. It does not work at all, and it’s time we we as a society recognized that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

Yeah, I do not think the PP has listened to it.