Anonymous wrote:Because nobody wants in laws like that.

Amin. After 20+ years, I have no more patience for this s*.

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you’ve had some interactions with rather rude and insensitive people and you are generalizing it to others. No, I wouldn’t say “many people from loving, functional families” (your words) behave the way you are describing. If you are socializing with people that use “cutting” words towards others, find a better group of friends!

Sometimes it comes out of nowhere. I had a friend for several years who I thought of as being a kind person. But once I was having dinner with her the week after a school shooting, and we were talking about what could possibly be done to prevent these shootings. And she said, "You know we used to lock up people with mental problems, we should do that again."

The thing was, I'd mentioned to her in the past that there is serious mental illness in my family (my mom is bipolar, my brother attempted suicide when I was in HS). I'm sure she didn't think of me as one of "those" people because I'm very mentally healthy now. But I had serious issues in my 20s due to these problems, had dealt with depression and anxiety, etc. She probably didn't realize that she was advocating for a policy that would have taken my rights away (and my mom's, and my brother's) because of a mental health diagnosis. And it's not even clear that mental health issues like depression or bipolar are the cause of those shootings -- mentally ill people are MUCH more likely to be harmed, or to harm themselves, than to harm others, statistically. But she just tossed this off like "oh the problem is mentally ill people and if we just lock them up, we'll solve it." It was so callous and ignorant.

You encounter attitudes like this a lot. Then irony here: years later this same friend was dealing with PPD and came to me to talk about it specifically because she knew I had experience and a lot of empathy dealing with mental health issues. It was interesting to me that when she was struggling, she viewed my background as beneficial to her, specifically. But when she wasn't, she viewed people like me and my family as "the problem." I've thought about that a lot in recent years.

OP, functional is in the eye of the beholder. It's very possible that the people you think had it easy are struggling with their own stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a book of short stories by Douglas Coupland called Life After God. In it, in one of the stories, a man is at his mother’s house after a divorce. She tells him that no couple is in love forever, that when the love fades you have friendship and companionship. She also goes on to say that all people are flawed and finding your person to grow cold with is not about finding someone without flaws - it’s finding a person where you say “these are the flaws and problems I choose”.

Of course people from dysfunctional families deserve love and a chance to change and break patterns. But no one owes them the service of being patient with them while they work through their issues. That is to say, some people will be able to work with the dysfunction but others cannot. It is not a moral failing to not want to deal with someone else’s issues and growth process. It’s not a moral failing to not want to inherit toxic, dysfunctional in-laws and/or family drama. My family is not perfect, but they are very stable and drama free, almost boringly so. When I chose a spouse, I wanted someone who came from a similarly stable and supportive family.

OP here. I would never suggest that anyone has a duty to befriend a dysfunctional person, help them through their issues, and certainly not MARRY them. Of course not.

I'm saying I don't understand why people are often angry and cruel to people from dysfunctional backgrounds. Telling them to "get over it" for instance. Gossiping about them, etc. When I encounter a dysfunctional person I don't want to deal with, I think "there but for the grace of God go I" and move along. I don't say nasty things to or about them (why?) or act superior. So why wouldn't a person from a good background be able to do this?

NP, but why aren't they getting over it? Are they working on it? Or are they just wallowing in dysfunction, passing it onto their children and coworkers? It's exhausting when other people don't deal with their problems.

I think your question is more about why some people gossip or have little patience for others.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a book of short stories by Douglas Coupland called Life After God. In it, in one of the stories, a man is at his mother’s house after a divorce. She tells him that no couple is in love forever, that when the love fades you have friendship and companionship. She also goes on to say that all people are flawed and finding your person to grow cold with is not about finding someone without flaws - it’s finding a person where you say “these are the flaws and problems I choose”.

Of course people from dysfunctional families deserve love and a chance to change and break patterns. But no one owes them the service of being patient with them while they work through their issues. That is to say, some people will be able to work with the dysfunction but others cannot. It is not a moral failing to not want to deal with someone else’s issues and growth process. It’s not a moral failing to not want to inherit toxic, dysfunctional in-laws and/or family drama. My family is not perfect, but they are very stable and drama free, almost boringly so. When I chose a spouse, I wanted someone who came from a similarly stable and supportive family.

OP here. I would never suggest that anyone has a duty to befriend a dysfunctional person, help them through their issues, and certainly not MARRY them. Of course not.

I'm saying I don't understand why people are often angry and cruel to people from dysfunctional backgrounds. Telling them to "get over it" for instance. Gossiping about them, etc. When I encounter a dysfunctional person I don't want to deal with, I think "there but for the grace of God go I" and move along. I don't say nasty things to or about them (why?) or act superior. So why wouldn't a person from a good background be able to do this?

Is this what happened to you? If so, then you need to think about why it happened. It sounds to me like your friend was telling you that you were dumping too much on him/her. Perhaps I am wrong and your friend is a jerk, but could the other side be that you are always leading with your problems and issues?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I realize that there are at least two sides to every story and I only know your side. I can't really tell if you are the victim or the source of the dysfunction.
Because I am familiar enough with mental health issues that I know they can cloud your perceptions.

But it's not your job to assess whether or not someone else is "a victim". And with family dysfunction, often everyone is the source of the dysfunction and in a way it's no one's fault, really. Like in my family, my parents were abusive and neglectful. They are in that way the "source" of my difficulties. But I can also recognize that their behaviors were also caused by being raised by abusive, neglectful parents. And I can also see how as a teenager and young adult, I had a ton of dysfunctional behaviors that negatively impacted other people. In this scenario, everyone is kind of a victim, because you can't choose your parents and if you have don't get what you need emotionally as a young child, it's unsurprising if you don't know how to act. On the other hand, every adult is also responsible for their own behavior and is responsible for changing that behavior if it is harming others.

You are viewing this from a black and white perspective (black and white thinking is a sign of poor mental health) and assigning roles like "victim" and "dysfunctional" to situations that are much more fluid and nuanced. And I have a hard time understanding why someone from a healthy family and childhood would fall into what to me are obvious traps -- thinking this way will actually cause YOU more strife in life than if you practice empathy and also understand that other people's struggles are not yours to judge or assess.

Like you are not describing a functional approach to dealing with someone who is struggling.

Actually, they are describing a functional approach to dealing with someone who is struggling. They are choosing to NOT deal with you and your struggles. That is okay. Your need doesn't trump theirs. They have responsibilities to themselves and their families, and they need to prioritize that.

The choosing not to deal with someone is functional. The "well I don't know whether or not you are really a victim because I haven't hear the other side" thinking is not. It is never your job to decide for someone else whether their perception of their own experience is correct. Ever. Thinking that way will only ever get you into trouble.

Completely disagree. While your perception is your perception, my perception is also my perception. Your perception does not supersede mine. I am definitely going to judge someone for whether I think they were an actual victim or whether I think that they are a pot stirrer and completely unhealthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a book of short stories by Douglas Coupland called Life After God. In it, in one of the stories, a man is at his mother’s house after a divorce. She tells him that no couple is in love forever, that when the love fades you have friendship and companionship. She also goes on to say that all people are flawed and finding your person to grow cold with is not about finding someone without flaws - it’s finding a person where you say “these are the flaws and problems I choose”.

Of course people from dysfunctional families deserve love and a chance to change and break patterns. But no one owes them the service of being patient with them while they work through their issues. That is to say, some people will be able to work with the dysfunction but others cannot. It is not a moral failing to not want to deal with someone else’s issues and growth process. It’s not a moral failing to not want to inherit toxic, dysfunctional in-laws and/or family drama. My family is not perfect, but they are very stable and drama free, almost boringly so. When I chose a spouse, I wanted someone who came from a similarly stable and supportive family.

OP here. I would never suggest that anyone has a duty to befriend a dysfunctional person, help them through their issues, and certainly not MARRY them. Of course not.

I'm saying I don't understand why people are often angry and cruel to people from dysfunctional backgrounds. Telling them to "get over it" for instance. Gossiping about them, etc. When I encounter a dysfunctional person I don't want to deal with, I think "there but for the grace of God go I" and move along. I don't say nasty things to or about them (why?) or act superior. So why wouldn't a person from a good background be able to do this?

Well of course plenty do.

You need to find a group of friends who aren’t “angry and cruel” and gossipy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a book of short stories by Douglas Coupland called Life After God. In it, in one of the stories, a man is at his mother’s house after a divorce. She tells him that no couple is in love forever, that when the love fades you have friendship and companionship. She also goes on to say that all people are flawed and finding your person to grow cold with is not about finding someone without flaws - it’s finding a person where you say “these are the flaws and problems I choose”.

Of course people from dysfunctional families deserve love and a chance to change and break patterns. But no one owes them the service of being patient with them while they work through their issues. That is to say, some people will be able to work with the dysfunction but others cannot. It is not a moral failing to not want to deal with someone else’s issues and growth process. It’s not a moral failing to not want to inherit toxic, dysfunctional in-laws and/or family drama. My family is not perfect, but they are very stable and drama free, almost boringly so. When I chose a spouse, I wanted someone who came from a similarly stable and supportive family.

OP here. I would never suggest that anyone has a duty to befriend a dysfunctional person, help them through their issues, and certainly not MARRY them. Of course not.

I'm saying I don't understand why people are often angry and cruel to people from dysfunctional backgrounds. Telling them to "get over it" for instance. Gossiping about them, etc. When I encounter a dysfunctional person I don't want to deal with, I think "there but for the grace of God go I" and move along. I don't say nasty things to or about them (why?) or act superior. So why wouldn't a person from a good background be able to do this?

NP, but why aren't they getting over it? Are they working on it? Or are they just wallowing in dysfunction, passing it onto their children and coworkers? It's exhausting when other people don't deal with their problems.

I think your question is more about why some people gossip or have little patience for others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the over-sharing. I don't need or want to hear about every problem you're having or ever had. Keep the drama to yourself.

I admit that this is how I feel too. I only interact with people like this at work (have no patience for them in my regular life) and this is why I am respectful but keep my distance.

Same. My work is different from my private life. In my private life, I choose to stay away from people who essentially want free therapy from me. While I am respectful of their needs, they need to respect that I get to make this choice.

OP here. I'm not talking about people who choose to limit interaction with someone who is behaving in a dysfunctional way. I do that too.

I'm talking about when people are cruel and critical of people who are struggling, whether it's complaining endlessly about their coworker who is negative and angry (the irony of this one) or using "dysfunctional" as an insult. I've just encountered a lot of people from "good" families who are mean when it comes to these issues and it surprises me.

Another thing I've observed. I have a couple friends who are from really loving families with really kind and loving parents (who I adore). When I socialize with these friends, they can be so cutting about people from dysfunctional backgrounds or people who's struggle with mental health, to the point that I've had to distance myself from them because I find their attitude offensive. But since I know their parents, I also know their parents would NEVER talk like that. It really surprises me to hear people from what I know to be really solid upbringings being very intolerant and sometimes cruel towards people who simply don't have their advantages. Is it just ignorance? Do they learn these attitudes from peers and just repeat that instead of following in their parents' tolerant, empathetic footprints? I've never understood this.

I think you may be giving their parents more credit than they perhaps deserve. I also think these may not be the right friends for you. You may want to make friends with people who are more aligned with your background and who will accept you and your level of dysfunction, whatever it is, and who will support you in the way you need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the why someone has annoying or bad behaviors shouldn't be an excuse that others have to put up with it. Generally others don't care about their neighbors, coworkers, kid's parents, or cousin's wife background unless they allow it to negatively affect those around them. The fact that a man molested as a child molests my child wouldn't make it "better" for my child. It is one thing to understand why someone acts they way they do, but understand doesn't mean I to accept it or allow it to negatively impact my life.

OP here. I have no problem with this outlook and it's also my own. I don't think you need to spend a lot of time empathizing with people who harm you, and this sounds like healthy boundaries.

I'm talking about people who express angry and intolerant attitudes towards people from dysfunction. Choosing not to have someone in your life because they are dysfunctional is totally reasonable. Getting mad at that person for the dysfunction that they don't have a ton of control over, and especially taking it out on them, is not. It generally just makes the problem worse because dysfunctional people often have extremely low self worth and their behavior will get worse if they feel they are irredeemable. Which is one of many reasons I approach people with kindness and the assumption that everyone has value -- I find it generally brings out the best in people, even if I also sometimes have to limit my interaction with someone because they don't have the relationship skills to be part of my circle.

Why are you choosing to have people in your circle who express angry and intolerant attitudes? Life is too short for this.

Anonymous wrote:There is a book of short stories by Douglas Coupland called Life After God. In it, in one of the stories, a man is at his mother’s house after a divorce. She tells him that no couple is in love forever, that when the love fades you have friendship and companionship. She also goes on to say that all people are flawed and finding your person to grow cold with is not about finding someone without flaws - it’s finding a person where you say “these are the flaws and problems I choose”.

Of course people from dysfunctional families deserve love and a chance to change and break patterns. But no one owes them the service of being patient with them while they work through their issues. That is to say, some people will be able to work with the dysfunction but others cannot. It is not a moral failing to not want to deal with someone else’s issues and growth process. It’s not a moral failing to not want to inherit toxic, dysfunctional in-laws and/or family drama. My family is not perfect, but they are very stable and drama free, almost boringly so. When I chose a spouse, I wanted someone who came from a similarly stable and supportive family.

OP here. I would never suggest that anyone has a duty to befriend a dysfunctional person, help them through their issues, and certainly not MARRY them. Of course not.

I'm saying I don't understand why people are often angry and cruel to people from dysfunctional backgrounds. Telling them to "get over it" for instance. Gossiping about them, etc. When I encounter a dysfunctional person I don't want to deal with, I think "there but for the grace of God go I" and move along. I don't say nasty things to or about them (why?) or act superior. So why wouldn't a person from a good background be able to do this?

I try to distance myself from dysfunction. Even though I came from a very functional family, I still have to work for things like good mental healthy, healthy relationships, child raising, etc. It's not like people who have functional families are perfect.

I think dysfunctional people need to work on themselves with therapy and being more cognizant of it. You don't get to dump on other people just because your family of origin was dysfunctional. Stop passing on dysfunction.

Sounds like you’ve had some interactions with rather rude and insensitive people and you are generalizing it to others. No, I wouldn’t say “many people from loving, functional families” (your words) behave the way you are describing. If you are socializing with people that use “cutting” words towards others, find a better group of friends!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I realize that there are at least two sides to every story and I only know your side. I can't really tell if you are the victim or the source of the dysfunction.
Because I am familiar enough with mental health issues that I know they can cloud your perceptions.

But it's not your job to assess whether or not someone else is "a victim". And with family dysfunction, often everyone is the source of the dysfunction and in a way it's no one's fault, really. Like in my family, my parents were abusive and neglectful. They are in that way the "source" of my difficulties. But I can also recognize that their behaviors were also caused by being raised by abusive, neglectful parents. And I can also see how as a teenager and young adult, I had a ton of dysfunctional behaviors that negatively impacted other people. In this scenario, everyone is kind of a victim, because you can't choose your parents and if you have don't get what you need emotionally as a young child, it's unsurprising if you don't know how to act. On the other hand, every adult is also responsible for their own behavior and is responsible for changing that behavior if it is harming others.

You are viewing this from a black and white perspective (black and white thinking is a sign of poor mental health) and assigning roles like "victim" and "dysfunctional" to situations that are much more fluid and nuanced. And I have a hard time understanding why someone from a healthy family and childhood would fall into what to me are obvious traps -- thinking this way will actually cause YOU more strife in life than if you practice empathy and also understand that other people's struggles are not yours to judge or assess.

Like you are not describing a functional approach to dealing with someone who is struggling.

Actually, they are describing a functional approach to dealing with someone who is struggling. They are choosing to NOT deal with you and your struggles. That is okay. Your need doesn't trump theirs. They have responsibilities to themselves and their families, and they need to prioritize that.

The choosing not to deal with someone is functional. The "well I don't know whether or not you are really a victim because I haven't hear the other side" thinking is not. It is never your job to decide for someone else whether their perception of their own experience is correct. Ever. Thinking that way will only ever get you into trouble.

There is a book of short stories by Douglas Coupland called Life After God. In it, in one of the stories, a man is at his mother’s house after a divorce. She tells him that no couple is in love forever, that when the love fades you have friendship and companionship. She also goes on to say that all people are flawed and finding your person to grow cold with is not about finding someone without flaws - it’s finding a person where you say “these are the flaws and problems I choose”.

Of course people from dysfunctional families deserve love and a chance to change and break patterns. But no one owes them the service of being patient with them while they work through their issues. That is to say, some people will be able to work with the dysfunction but others cannot. It is not a moral failing to not want to deal with someone else’s issues and growth process. It’s not a moral failing to not want to inherit toxic, dysfunctional in-laws and/or family drama. My family is not perfect, but they are very stable and drama free, almost boringly so. When I chose a spouse, I wanted someone who came from a similarly stable and supportive family.