Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

I would submit them all with limited exceptions. I think the advice on not submitting 4s is pretty limited - it might apply to the MIT applicant with a 4 in their area of interest. But they should still submit that 4 in English Lang. For most schools, 4s are great.

Yes, I think that's very true. So far my kid has 5s in History and English APs, except a 4 in AP Gov and a 3 in AP comp sci. He will submit all because his focus is Humanities, and his only 4 in that field was in 9th grade, when the pandemic started.

Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

Anonymous wrote:There's nothing that anyone can say on this board that is going to convince anyone who insists that AP scores carry significant weight for college admissions that they're wrong.
So why bother.

For one thing, most applicants aren't even taking half or more of their AP exams until AFTER college decisions are even made.

My four kids each took lots of AP courses, some did much, much better than others on the exams overall, they all submitted all the scores they had to every college they applied to -- and there was no relationship between their AP scores and the schools that ultimately admitted them. It all came down to grades, course selection, and SAT/ACT scores.

But people are stubborn. So I'd say either submit all of your scores or none, because if you only submit some the presumption will be that you didn't do well on the ones you didn't submit.

Your inferential anecdata is clear and convincing. Though I’m not sure anyone is saying they carry significant weight; rather they can be a factor.

Note - this also depends on where you want to go to college. If you live in CA (or not) and are likely go to a UC school, AP scores are counted as actual CREDIT when attend.

Some kids arrive as freshmen at UC schools with the status of sophomores purely from AP scores. Even if your child doesn't want to graduate earlier than 4 years from the UC school, there are advantages.....such as, earlier registration for classes because registration is based on how many credits you have under your belt. This has advantages.

There may be other schools like this. And, yes, I know that most schools don't give credit but just allow greater flexibility in course choice based on AP scores. Many schools DO, however, allow an AP score in foreign language to forgo that requirement completely.

There's nothing that anyone can say on this board that is going to convince anyone who insists that AP scores carry significant weight for college admissions that they're wrong.
So why bother.

For one thing, most applicants aren't even taking half or more of their AP exams until AFTER college decisions are even made.

My four kids each took lots of AP courses, some did much, much better than others on the exams overall, they all submitted all the scores they had to every college they applied to -- and there was no relationship between their AP scores and the schools that ultimately admitted them. It all came down to grades, course selection, and SAT/ACT scores.

But people are stubborn. So I'd say either submit all of your scores or none, because if you only submit some the presumption will be that you didn't do well on the ones you didn't submit.

Anonymous wrote:DC has a mix of 3s and 4s. Isn’t shooting for elite schools but some in the T40-80 range. Not going into a stem field and the APs are in humanities/social studies courses. Several of the schools on DC’s list take 3s for credit. Should DC report the 3s and 4s since the school considers them worthy of credit? Or are the school’s AP credit policies completely unrelated to what admissions would think? I’m guessing the latter so leaning towards not reporting anything.

I would not report the 3s for admission but would report them later if accepted and going.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

My kid submitted only 4s or 5s. He took 9 APs and got one 3 and failed rest. He is smart, but lazy. Got into Michigan, which was his #1. Got a 34 on ACT with perfect score on English. This was last year.

DC has a mix of 3s and 4s. Isn’t shooting for elite schools but some in the T40-80 range. Not going into a stem field and the APs are in humanities/social studies courses. Several of the schools on DC’s list take 3s for credit. Should DC report the 3s and 4s since the school considers them worthy of credit? Or are the school’s AP credit policies completely unrelated to what admissions would think? I’m guessing the latter so leaning towards not reporting anything.

Anonymous wrote:DS has a 3.98, 1540 and a 3 on APUSH exam

Affinity for a subject is going to matter.

Some are strictly left or right brain people and no matter how much they study will only raise a score to a certain degree.

My son will not be taking AP Physics or AP Chem. He does fantastic in History, English, Bio, and math (up to a point it's come easily--not sure about Calc yet).

DS has a 3.98, 1540 and a 3 on APUSH exam

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

I would submit them all with limited exceptions. I think the advice on not submitting 4s is pretty limited - it might apply to the MIT applicant with a 4 in their area of interest. But they should still submit that 4 in English Lang. For most schools, 4s are great.

Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

My sophomore son just scored a 5 on his Euro History AP exam and is ready to frame it .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You'll get plenty of people on here who claim AP scores are not considered during admissions.

Sorry, but an admissions officer who knows grades are inflated and can't easily be compared between one school system and another will be interested to find that "top" student A earned 5 out of 5 on their AP exams, and "top" student B earned 3.

Same principle for SAT, ACT and IB scores. They all cut across the gpa noise and provide a national basis of comparison. At similar gpa, it really shows you which school inflates grades and which school doesn't.

Here's the thing: an admissions officer may say that student B would have gotten the 5 if they had gone to the same school (or had the same teachers) as student A. So while it can differentiate between schools, it may not lead them to saying student A > student B.

That is a logical fallacy, since you cannot expect overworked college admissions officers to weigh imponderables and prove negatives.
Please also note that some students take AP exams without taking the course.
Your argument could only be valid if the student adds in the appropriate portion of his application that he suffered a notable setback in his education due to X, Y and Z. Poor teaching will not be well received, however true it is. I know, my kid has has two inexperienced AP teachers out of 6 so far!

But to a broader point: an academically strong student will be recognized if their scores are strong across the board: high scores on SAT/ACT, AP and/or IB. An admissions officer will not ignore that, and will not take a chance on a lower-scoring student unless they have other meaningful things to bring to the college: athleticism, alumni connection, development potential, minority status, or significant extra-curricular achievement.

Anonymous wrote:You'll get plenty of people on here who claim AP scores are not considered during admissions.

Sorry, but an admissions officer who knows grades are inflated and can't easily be compared between one school system and another will be interested to find that "top" student A earned 5 out of 5 on their AP exams, and "top" student B earned 3.

Same principle for SAT, ACT and IB scores. They all cut across the gpa noise and provide a national basis of comparison. At similar gpa, it really shows you which school inflates grades and which school doesn't.

To say this you cannot simply go by our own kid and a few of their friends, you would need data of all kids and across multiple years, IMHO.

Otherwise it is subjective to say one kid got an A but only a 3 on the test, hence all kids must have inflated grades. What about the majority of A students in that class who got a 5? Do the few with 3 negate their rigor/skills ?