Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Achieve pushes “competency-based pathways.”

I say we need more critical thinking in schools, more holistic approaches.

Conservatives hate that idea because they won’t win future elections if voters think critically. So they push things like “competency based pathways.”

What you characterize as "critical thinking" is understood by many to mean the indoctrination of younger students with a particular set of political views by teachers who do not seek to explore multiple perspectives. "Comptency-based pathways" at least connotes learning things that will help graduates earn a living wage.

Yes, I am aware of the twisted narrative.

The difference is like the difference between teaching liberal arts in college or attending trade school. The most successful people in society today have a liberal arts/critical thinking background. It’s actually the opposite of indoctrination because it teaches students to challenge authority, which includes what is being taught.

The “just learn skills” crowd only wants students to know how to change a light fixture or repair a car or program a computer. It doesn’t want anyone seeing the forest for the trees. Because then people might second-guess voting for conservative politicians who promote policies that are bad for them. It makes them more prone to acquiescence.

This has been in the works for 30+ years in public education. What we’re seeing now is next level, however.

That's a lot to unpack.

It's not like students who just have liberal arts degrees graduate and set the world on fire. Many can barely find decent employment, and the higher-paid liberal arts graduates often are those who've gone on to attend graduate or professional schools, which may not be a financial option for many students.

As for whether "critical thinking" is being encouraged, it's notable that the School Board has been exploring, if it has not already adopted, revisions to an existing "controversial issues" policy that required teachers to consider presenting competing perspectives, which would be consistent with encouraging students to develop their own views, to instead allow teachers to advocate in classrooms for a particular point of view. That would be fine if students already had the so-called "critical thinking" skills to challenge their teachers, but in practice it may lead to race and class-centered indoctrination.

Finally, as for the suggestion that "competency-based pathways" boil down to "just learn skills," that would be unfortunate if it were all that it entailed. At least some conservatives want to ensure all students are receiving an education in what used to be called "civics" that entails gaining an understanding of the basics about, for example, the three branches of the federal government (executive, legislative, and judicial) and a federal system (under which certain powers are exercised by the federal government, while others are reserved to the states). That type of education can make for an informed citizenry and electorate, not one that only learns vocational training.

Certainly it would be preferable to some of what currently happens in FCPS, where multiple schools (including some where students might benefit the most from additional vocational pathways) instead have International Baccalaureate programs that purport to develop "global citizens," but are poorly subscribed, treat the United States as just one of many countries around the world, fail to cover basic "civics," and graduate few students on track to receive an IB diploma.

To “unpack” your response, one has to dispute the premises you lay out.

1) The notion that “it’s not like those who just have a liberal arts degree have set the world on fire” or cannot find decent employment is simply unsupported by the facts. In fact, it’s a lazy trope. Yes, many go on to get professional degrees or certifications but the liberal arts background equipped them to do so and succeed in those environments. Others become entrepreneurs or find gainful employment in major corporations, which value the ability to think and make connections. Continuous education is necessary for anyone who wishes to succeed and progress in a career — same for trades. But it’s not true that liberal arts graduates are barely employable. Are there some? Sure — there are always outliers. Just like there are crappy plumbers who can’t hold a job.

2) The notion that teachers “advocate” a point of view on controversial subjects is similarly unsupported. That’s some straight up bullshit you have lapped up from propaganda outlets like the Federalist or Washington Examiner or any number of right wing publications masquerading as news. I have known literally hundreds of teachers in my life and none of them do this. It’s a complete and bizarre fantasy of conservatives that this happens — my guess many are confusing the lack of parroting about their own world view in the classroom with “indoctrination.” In other words, they’re complaining about the omission of right-wing dogma in schools. And again, there may be anecdotes here and there of outliers or nutty teachers who have, but in general, teachers are following a state-approved curriculum with accountability in the form of things like SOLs — there’s no time for “indoctrination.” The kids are learning reading, writing, arithmetic. They are also learning how to be citizens and basic society skills like empathy, equity, tolerance, etc. This is important because they might not be learning these concepts at home and society needs for them to know them in order to function. This is essential to that basic “civics” you mention.

We need *More* emphasis on global citizens, not less. We live in a globalized economy. The more holistically we can help our children think and disabuse them of the notion of things like American exceptionalism (teach the concept, but don’t indoctrinate them to the jingoism), the better.

Anonymous wrote:I attended public schools, sent my kids to public schools, and for a very long time defended public schools and vociferously opposed charter schools in VA.

But having watched the incompetence, mismanagement, and hypocrisy of a 12-0 Democrat School Board in FCPS over the past several years, I've come to welcome any initiative by the Youngkin administration, including the lab schools initiative, that will shake these folks up and get them to focus on the basic again: academics, facilities, teacher pay, and accountability. That is exactly what we are NOT getting with people like Karl Frisch, Elaine Tholen, Laura Jane Cohen, and Karen Keys Gamarra on the School Board, and it's time for a change.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/virginia-breaks-the-school-choice-barrier-glenn-youngkin-lab-schools-charters-11656445074

That's what all the Republicans say to appear to be reasonable when the fact is they hate America.

I attended public schools, sent my kids to public schools, and for a very long time defended public schools and vociferously opposed charter schools in VA.

But having watched the incompetence, mismanagement, and hypocrisy of a 12-0 Democrat School Board in FCPS over the past several years, I've come to welcome any initiative by the Youngkin administration, including the lab schools initiative, that will shake these folks up and get them to focus on the basic again: academics, facilities, teacher pay, and accountability. That is exactly what we are NOT getting with people like Karl Frisch, Elaine Tholen, Laura Jane Cohen, and Karen Keys Gamarra on the School Board, and it's time for a change.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/virginia-breaks-the-school-choice-barrier-glenn-youngkin-lab-schools-charters-11656445074

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Achieve pushes “competency-based pathways.”

I say we need more critical thinking in schools, more holistic approaches.

Conservatives hate that idea because they won’t win future elections if voters think critically. So they push things like “competency based pathways.”

What you characterize as "critical thinking" is understood by many to mean the indoctrination of younger students with a particular set of political views by teachers who do not seek to explore multiple perspectives. "Comptency-based pathways" at least connotes learning things that will help graduates earn a living wage.

Yes, I am aware of the twisted narrative.

The difference is like the difference between teaching liberal arts in college or attending trade school. The most successful people in society today have a liberal arts/critical thinking background. It’s actually the opposite of indoctrination because it teaches students to challenge authority, which includes what is being taught.

The “just learn skills” crowd only wants students to know how to change a light fixture or repair a car or program a computer. It doesn’t want anyone seeing the forest for the trees. Because then people might second-guess voting for conservative politicians who promote policies that are bad for them. It makes them more prone to acquiescence.

This has been in the works for 30+ years in public education. What we’re seeing now is next level, however.

That's a lot to unpack.

It's not like students who just have liberal arts degrees graduate and set the world on fire. Many can barely find decent employment, and the higher-paid liberal arts graduates often are those who've gone on to attend graduate or professional schools, which may not be a financial option for many students.

As for whether "critical thinking" is being encouraged, it's notable that the School Board has been exploring, if it has not already adopted, revisions to an existing "controversial issues" policy that required teachers to consider presenting competing perspectives, which would be consistent with encouraging students to develop their own views, to instead allow teachers to advocate in classrooms for a particular point of view. That would be fine if students already had the so-called "critical thinking" skills to challenge their teachers, but in practice it may lead to race and class-centered indoctrination.

Finally, as for the suggestion that "competency-based pathways" boil down to "just learn skills," that would be unfortunate if it were all that it entailed. At least some conservatives want to ensure all students are receiving an education in what used to be called "civics" that entails gaining an understanding of the basics about, for example, the three branches of the federal government (executive, legislative, and judicial) and a federal system (under which certain powers are exercised by the federal government, while others are reserved to the states). That type of education can make for an informed citizenry and electorate, not one that only learns vocational training.

Certainly it would be preferable to some of what currently happens in FCPS, where multiple schools (including some where students might benefit the most from additional vocational pathways) instead have International Baccalaureate programs that purport to develop "global citizens," but are poorly subscribed, treat the United States as just one of many countries around the world, fail to cover basic "civics," and graduate few students on track to receive an IB diploma.

If Youngkin has his way, education in Virgina will be at the same standards at FL.

If he has any brains ( and wants asian votes), he will simply open 1-2 more TJ type schools. One in Ashburn and the other in central VA.

But no, he will take the easier path of random
comments and burning down, what has been done so far.

And oh, BTW - I am still waiting for CRT to be expunged from our schools

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin's solution will be to privatize everything so he can basically say its not my problem

I'm down. At least then we can choose to go to a good school.

You can choose a good school now. Either move or pay for it, don't ask the government to give you a hand out.

That's a ridiculous take. The entire purpose of public schools is to provide a good education for every student. Right now some schools are doing very poorly and FCPS has continually failed to demonstrate that they have the backbone to make decisions that are universally optimal but unpopular with the vocal minority.

Ironically, FCPS is doing a far better job than almost every other district in the state.

There aren't that many cities in Virginia to compare it to. Are we doing better than Arlington? Richmond wealthy suburbs? VA Beach wealthy suburbs? The rest of Virginia is rural. Why aren't we comparing ourselves to SF suburbs, NYC suburbs, Boston suburbs?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin's solution will be to privatize everything so he can basically say its not my problem

I'm down. At least then we can choose to go to a good school.

You can choose a good school now. Either move or pay for it, don't ask the government to give you a hand out.

That's a ridiculous take. The entire purpose of public schools is to provide a good education for every student. Right now some schools are doing very poorly and FCPS has continually failed to demonstrate that they have the backbone to make decisions that are universally optimal but unpopular with the vocal minority.

The schools have not done poorly. Virginia ranks top 5 in the country for public schools. This is a bullshit narrative invented by right-wingers to dupe anxious suburban mommies

Exactly, kids today are doing fine as are schools. Sure, some standardized test metrics are down but that has more to do with mass immigration from central America over the past two decades than a decline in schools. The influx of non-native speakers is going to impact test score averages. It's simple. It doesn't mean that schools are worse and honestly my kids are getting far more out FCPS today than I did 30 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK. Can he tear himself away from attacking women's rights for long enough to come up with a fair and equitable solution to this educational decline?

I don't think he wants to find a solution to anything and mostly benefits by stoking fear.

PP you replied to. Yes, I think you're right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Achieve pushes “competency-based pathways.”

I say we need more critical thinking in schools, more holistic approaches.

Conservatives hate that idea because they won’t win future elections if voters think critically. So they push things like “competency based pathways.”

What you characterize as "critical thinking" is understood by many to mean the indoctrination of younger students with a particular set of political views by teachers who do not seek to explore multiple perspectives. "Comptency-based pathways" at least connotes learning things that will help graduates earn a living wage.

Yes, I am aware of the twisted narrative.

The difference is like the difference between teaching liberal arts in college or attending trade school. The most successful people in society today have a liberal arts/critical thinking background. It’s actually the opposite of indoctrination because it teaches students to challenge authority, which includes what is being taught.

The “just learn skills” crowd only wants students to know how to change a light fixture or repair a car or program a computer. It doesn’t want anyone seeing the forest for the trees. Because then people might second-guess voting for conservative politicians who promote policies that are bad for them. It makes them more prone to acquiescence.

This has been in the works for 30+ years in public education. What we’re seeing now is next level, however.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin's solution will be to privatize everything so he can basically say its not my problem

I'm down. At least then we can choose to go to a good school.

You can choose a good school now. Either move or pay for it, don't ask the government to give you a hand out.

That's a ridiculous take. The entire purpose of public schools is to provide a good education for every student. Right now some schools are doing very poorly and FCPS has continually failed to demonstrate that they have the backbone to make decisions that are universally optimal but unpopular with the vocal minority.

Ironically, FCPS is doing a far better job than almost every other district in the state.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin's solution will be to privatize everything so he can basically say its not my problem

I'm down. At least then we can choose to go to a good school.

You can choose a good school now. Either move or pay for it, don't ask the government to give you a hand out.

That's a ridiculous take. The entire purpose of public schools is to provide a good education for every student. Right now some schools are doing very poorly and FCPS has continually failed to demonstrate that they have the backbone to make decisions that are universally optimal but unpopular with the vocal minority.

The schools have not done poorly. Virginia ranks top 5 in the country for public schools. This is a bullshit narrative invented by right-wingers to dupe anxious suburban mommies

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin's solution will be to privatize everything so he can basically say its not my problem

I'm down. At least then we can choose to go to a good school.

You can choose a good school now. Either move or pay for it, don't ask the government to give you a hand out.

That's a ridiculous take. The entire purpose of public schools is to provide a good education for every student. Right now some schools are doing very poorly and FCPS has continually failed to demonstrate that they have the backbone to make decisions that are universally optimal but unpopular with the vocal minority.

Anonymous wrote:Achieve pushes “competency-based pathways.”

I say we need more critical thinking in schools, more holistic approaches.

Conservatives hate that idea because they won’t win future elections if voters think critically. So they push things like “competency based pathways.”

What you characterize as "critical thinking" is understood by many to mean the indoctrination of younger students with a particular set of political views by teachers who do not seek to explore multiple perspectives. "Comptency-based pathways" at least connotes learning things that will help graduates earn a living wage.

Anonymous wrote:
OK. Can he tear himself away from attacking women's rights for long enough to come up with a fair and equitable solution to this educational decline?

I don't think he wants to find a solution to anything and mostly benefits by stoking fear.

Achieve pushes “competency-based pathways.”

I say we need more critical thinking in schools, more holistic approaches.

Conservatives hate that idea because they won’t win future elections if voters think critically. So they push things like “competency based pathways.”