Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just looking at a sub 15% acceptance school and saw few greens in a sea of red. What surprised me were the reds to the far right of the scattergram.

Most competitive schools reject 70-90% of students with perfect/near-perfect scores.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/02/perfect-act-sat-scores-dont-mean-admission-to-top-universities/
https://admissionsight.com/1600-sat-score/
https://theconversation.com/youre-not-going-to-get-accepted-into-a-top-university-on-merit-alone-87985

This is so depressing. We aren't even talking about an Ivy here.

It's not depressing if you don't go into it with any expectations about what's going to be possible. There are hundreds of colleges that are capable of educating the most capable students, and only a few of them are turning down students with the highest numbers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.

So, this is going to be tough. How do kids get into T20 schools? My DC's dream school is a T30 school and her stats will line up easily. They denied a 1530/4.3, but accepted 1290/3.8 applicant. I swear it wasn't like that back in my day. Is a school a "reach" just based upon % accepted? How many reach schools should be on the list?

Applicants with lower stats 30 years ago got in for the same reasons now: diversity, sports, donor and legacy. Push for 1st gen is new. Most people didn’t know in the past because we didn’t have access to data such as Naviance and CDS. However, more kids are applying/ going to college than previous generations, which includes more middle and working class families. That has created increased competition for the wealthy and UMC.

And yes, any school that accepts less than 25% of applicants is a reach for most students or else they have a hook which could increase the odds to classify the school as a target. No competitive school is a safety.

I could be wrong, but it also seems like greater emphasis on fewer schools. Maybe it’s a function of my family’s wealth (or lack of) and where I grew up, but I only knew a few people who applied to Ivy League schools.

Yes, I should have added the influence of US News rankings. There is research that argues that the hyperfocus on the top 100 schools is an outcome of the emphasis on rankings. US News annual ranking going online in the 1990s increased competition because millions of kids, not just the UMC/wealthy, could research and learn about these schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no one is entitled to an acceptance

+1
This is what some of these parents simply don't understand. Their kid might have the grades and scores needed for a given school, but they may be lacking in other areas. Yet they *still* complain bitterly, as if their kid was entitled to admittance.

It is absolutely incorrect (and unhealthy) to suggest that a kid who did not get accepted to a school with <30% acceptance rate was "lacking" -- what is lacking is space at any given school for all the qualified applicants. No one it entitled to acceptance, but that doesn't always mean they were lacking in any way. Their ticket just wasn't one of the ones pulled. Which is why those who are admitted should check their egos and thank the stars for the bit of luck that is also needed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.

So, this is going to be tough. How do kids get into T20 schools? My DC's dream school is a T30 school and her stats will line up easily. They denied a 1530/4.3, but accepted 1290/3.8 applicant. I swear it wasn't like that back in my day. Is a school a "reach" just based upon % accepted? How many reach schools should be on the list?

Applicants with lower stats 30 years ago got in for the same reasons now: diversity, sports, donor and legacy. Push for 1st gen is new. Most people didn’t know in the past because we didn’t have access to data such as Naviance and CDS. However, more kids are applying/ going to college than previous generations, which includes more middle and working class families. That has created increased competition for the wealthy and UMC.

And yes, any school that accepts less than 25% of applicants is a reach for most students or else they have a hook which could increase the odds to classify the school as a target. No competitive school is a safety.

I could be wrong, but it also seems like greater emphasis on fewer schools. Maybe it’s a function of my family’s wealth (or lack of) and where I grew up, but I only knew a few people who applied to Ivy League schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.

So, this is going to be tough. How do kids get into T20 schools? My DC's dream school is a T30 school and her stats will line up easily. They denied a 1530/4.3, but accepted 1290/3.8 applicant. I swear it wasn't like that back in my day. Is a school a "reach" just based upon % accepted? How many reach schools should be on the list?

The answer is that you do what you know you need to do and hope for the best. There are more kids whose stats line up than there are spots for high stats kids. Not every seat is going to a high stats kid. It was never a guarantee before, and it certainly isn't one now. So pick one, show a ton of interest, write a great "why this school" essay that is very specific, and apply ED. Then get excited about some likely schools.

Encourage them to choose a well placed ED, and one or two shoot for the moon applications, but focus the 'real' search on true safeties. Most kids we know are going to a college they love and that on paper looked like a "safety" -- in other words the most likely places they would be admitted. They had nice schools to choose from and great merit aid. So focus the bulk of your energy on schools most likely to accept. Also, if you child is interested in a big state schools, the odds are better since there are more seats to fill. It is really challenging if your child is mostly focused on small schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.

So, this is going to be tough. How do kids get into T20 schools? My DC's dream school is a T30 school and her stats will line up easily. They denied a 1530/4.3, but accepted 1290/3.8 applicant. I swear it wasn't like that back in my day. Is a school a "reach" just based upon % accepted? How many reach schools should be on the list?

Applicants with lower stats 30 years ago got in for the same reasons now: diversity, sports, donor and legacy. Push for 1st gen is new. Most people didn’t know in the past because we didn’t have access to data such as Naviance and CDS. However, more kids are applying/ going to college than previous generations, which includes more middle and working class families. That has created increased competition for the wealthy and UMC.

And yes, any school that accepts less than 25% of applicants is a reach for most students or else they have a hook which could increase the odds to classify the school as a target. No competitive school is a safety.

Because scattergrams aren’t reliable. It’s complete, unverified information. There could be other red x kids at that school who never reported their rejections.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.

So, this is going to be tough. How do kids get into T20 schools? My DC's dream school is a T30 school and her stats will line up easily. They denied a 1530/4.3, but accepted 1290/3.8 applicant. I swear it wasn't like that back in my day. Is a school a "reach" just based upon % accepted? How many reach schools should be on the list?

That's because Naviance does not show Athletic recruits, legacy, development cases, etc. For T-20, your child should always consider it a reach, no matter what their stats are. Those schools want some thing very special. Consider what your child can emphasize in addition to good stats. Good stats are table stakes. Figure out what makes them different than every other high stats kid and let that show in the app. And pick some true safeties that your child loves, too. Don't sell your child on the soul mate school myth. There are many places they could be happy.

Anonymous wrote:Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.

So, this is going to be tough. How do kids get into T20 schools? My DC's dream school is a T30 school and her stats will line up easily. They denied a 1530/4.3, but accepted 1290/3.8 applicant. I swear it wasn't like that back in my day. Is a school a "reach" just based upon % accepted? How many reach schools should be on the list?

Anonymous wrote:Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.

Just wait until they apply to grad schools. It is worse. There is no rhyme or reason. This is not a new phenomenon either.

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids was denied by a school that was a total safety for him because he never finished the application process. He was a music major and needed to audition but had better options by the time the date for that school came around. In that colleges’ case - and they differ in how they handle music admissions - not completing the process was a denial. He could have withdrawn his application but just didn’t bother.

Somewhat similar here. DC was denied by 80+% admit safety. Applied at the deadline as music major and didn’t realize they did rolling admissions, so I guess slots were gone for instrument. Said interested in other programs, but I think admissions did not send app to lib arts after music rejection. Meanwhile, accepted to Ivies/T10. Weird.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:no one is entitled to an acceptance

+1
This is what some of these parents simply don't understand. Their kid might have the grades and scores needed for a given school, but they may be lacking in other areas. Yet they *still* complain bitterly, as if their kid was entitled to admittance.

You sound like someone who hasn't been there/done that yet. Ask counselors who have been around for along time. It's messed up.

Who knows? My kid had rejections at schools that were really difficult to comprehend, and accepted at schools that were unexpected. Then there were the schools that WL, and then accepted with huge merit awards -- clearly they were playing games with the whole ranking thing. It is a terribly frustrating process.