Anonymous wrote:

How does this help them prepare for college?

The purpose of middle school is not preparation for college. And math is not the only class students take.

WTAF. In this era most mainstream students should absolutely be on a college prep path from year k

Anonymous wrote:

How does this help them prepare for college?

The purpose of middle school is not preparation for college. And math is not the only class students take.

If you don't fully cover pre-Algebra and Algebra, it has effects down the line in later math classes.

Math is just one example. My kid has not had any homework in MS in two years in any class.

Do you honestly think this is okay or even ideal? I am struggling to relate to this perspective.

How does this help them prepare for college?

The purpose of middle school is not preparation for college. And math is not the only class students take.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We went from a homework elementary school to a sometimes homework middle school. But the thing to remember about the middle schools is that they use block scheduling, so the kids are given time during those long block classes to do their work, so most of the time the homework is just what they didn’t get too or fooled around during class and didn’t finish. If you have a 90 minute class, there should be enough time during the school day to do any necessary drilling or longer projects.

Wait why are they in 90 minute blocks if the teacher isn’t using that time for instruction, demonstrations or projects? There shouldn’t be time for homework or horsing around, they are only in school 6 hrs as it is

I am also puzzled by this. My rising 8th grader has had no homework at all since starting middle school. Claims to do it all in class, but if that much time is given in class to do homework, how do they also fit in all the needed instruction time? Also received straight As with seemingly minimal effort, include over 100% in some classes (really?!). Kid is pretty lazy and not like a genius or anything, so I just really question how rigorous the education is these days when I see no/minimal effort for those grades.

Do you know anything about how people learn? Sitting, being talked at for 90 minutes doesn't work. It's a decent pedagogical model to instruct, demonstrate, and then let the children reinforce what they were just shown at their own pace while getting assistance from the teacher. The only thing unique about homework is that you do it at home.

But how does this compare to when I was growing up, when we had math five days a week, and each class was instruction, class work, and then homework at night? If they are not covering twice as much material in one class with the block schedule, are they simply not learning as much over the course of the year as we did back in the day?

I always found homework helpful because the first thing we did in math class was to go over it, so it was a quick review and a chance to see if I correctly remembered how to do problems at home by myself with no help. Now I feel like my kid does not ever do that, and I'm just wondering why not? Is it really because some kids can't/won't do homework, so we just lower the bar for everyone? How does this help them prepare for college?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We went from a homework elementary school to a sometimes homework middle school. But the thing to remember about the middle schools is that they use block scheduling, so the kids are given time during those long block classes to do their work, so most of the time the homework is just what they didn’t get too or fooled around during class and didn’t finish. If you have a 90 minute class, there should be enough time during the school day to do any necessary drilling or longer projects.

Wait why are they in 90 minute blocks if the teacher isn’t using that time for instruction, demonstrations or projects? There shouldn’t be time for homework or horsing around, they are only in school 6 hrs as it is

I am also puzzled by this. My rising 8th grader has had no homework at all since starting middle school. Claims to do it all in class, but if that much time is given in class to do homework, how do they also fit in all the needed instruction time? Also received straight As with seemingly minimal effort, include over 100% in some classes (really?!). Kid is pretty lazy and not like a genius or anything, so I just really question how rigorous the education is these days when I see no/minimal effort for those grades.

Do you know anything about how people learn? Sitting, being talked at for 90 minutes doesn't work. It's a decent pedagogical model to instruct, demonstrate, and then let the children reinforce what they were just shown at their own pace while getting assistance from the teacher. The only thing unique about homework is that you do it at home.

The problem with block scheduling is that you can’t really do 2 full lessons a period. Kids don’t have the attention span to stay engaged consistently. So you get through like 1.5 lessons and then kids have about 45 mins to work independently. Kids who work fast can then do homework or get ahead in other classes.

The upside is you have most classes every other day so if something is due you have more time to complete it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We went from a homework elementary school to a sometimes homework middle school. But the thing to remember about the middle schools is that they use block scheduling, so the kids are given time during those long block classes to do their work, so most of the time the homework is just what they didn’t get too or fooled around during class and didn’t finish. If you have a 90 minute class, there should be enough time during the school day to do any necessary drilling or longer projects.

Wait why are they in 90 minute blocks if the teacher isn’t using that time for instruction, demonstrations or projects? There shouldn’t be time for homework or horsing around, they are only in school 6 hrs as it is

I am also puzzled by this. My rising 8th grader has had no homework at all since starting middle school. Claims to do it all in class, but if that much time is given in class to do homework, how do they also fit in all the needed instruction time? Also received straight As with seemingly minimal effort, include over 100% in some classes (really?!). Kid is pretty lazy and not like a genius or anything, so I just really question how rigorous the education is these days when I see no/minimal effort for those grades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at a 22207 no homework APS, and it has not been great at all. Far from it.

I think we may be at the same school because we feel the same way.

Which school is this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Starting in 2023-24, they will be offering more advanced options for middle school. (So not accelerated content but going deeper on content.)

2. It was not less rigorous than my elementary, which had a no-homework policy. I'm personally in favor of no homework in elementary.

3. Middle school is a tough age. Greatness drops off for sure because...puberty. Kids going through puberty on different timetables under one roof.

As noted by another PP, I think giving some homework in the later grades of elementary is helpful to prepare students for suddenly getting homework in 6 classes in middle school. On the other hand, APS is solving that issue by significantly limiting homework in middle school and subsequently in high school.

So, yeah, "greatness" definitely takes a nose-dive and it has nothing to do with puberty.

Homework is fundamentally inequitable.

Many students don't have stable environments at home to perform homework, no quiet space, no desk, maybe bad internet, or their parents aren't home or speak english so can't help (and you know some parents DO help). On top of that, many are caring for younger children, or working in the family business in the afternoon/evenings.

Because of this, homework has been shown to increase the achievement gap, and thus will be eliminated throughout APS eventually.

Infuriating. Race to the bottom. Equity is supposed to be about giving support to bring up those who need it. This approach is about squishing everyone down.

Parents with resources will supplement so their kids will have homework anyway. Maybe I’m cynical but schools really can’t equalize for all the disparities in life.

YES!
And nor SHOULD schools be expected to equalize for all life disaparities. Education is a tool and a pathway to opportunity and overcoming economic, social, and academic disparities. But every person is not equally talented in all areas - there are, and always will be, differences. Part of life - and an aspect of life all kids need to learn to deal with and try to overcome.

Public schools have to be equitable or they will be sued nonstop. Colleges have a lot of latitude in admissions and that is the time when differentiation can start.

Again, "equity" is not the same as "equal." Public schools can be equitable without dumbing down for higher-performing students. Equity does not mean that every student has the same capabilities and the exact same support systems outside of school. Schools are not responsible for outside support systems and should not be expected or required to go about the business of education from the "least common denominator" approach. Nobody can expect every student to graduate from any individual school with the exact same experience or level of achievement in every area. The suggestion that that is what is meant by "equity" is ridiculous.

Rip Van Winkle here apparently fell asleep in 2019 and just woke up. This is exactly what they mean when they say “equity” now.

That may be; but they're wrong and it's sending our schools (and society) downhill fast. Another example of seizing on a term and running with it thoughtlessly and taking the easiest way to superficially achieving the goal.

Remember that visual folks (including the SB) used to like to pull out to demonstrate "equity" - the kids standing on various sized/# of boxes looking over the fence to watch the baseball game? All the kids get to see the game by giving the kids who couldn't see over the fence boxes to stand on; not by cutting the fence line lower so the smallest one could see over and keeping all the kids on the same starting point. APS seems to miss that and is going about it backwards: lowering the goal so everyone reaches it, instead of helping those in need achieve the higher standard.

Anonymous wrote:We are at a 22207 no homework APS, and it has not been great at all. Far from it.

I think we may be at the same school because we feel the same way.

All APS schools are less rigorous than you would expect. APS students are largely high achieving because we have a very well educated set of parents. APS is not good at gap closing -- look at the numbers for lower SES students and students with disabilities. Dr. Murphy really tanked the system. Dr. Duran has done some good things -- like changing the reading curriculum. Hopefully we can dump the high reliance on 1-1 devices as well. But it's a long road to get there.

We went private during COVID and I've seen much more emphasis on fundamentals which APS tends to overlook in favor of technology.

Anonymous wrote:We went from a homework elementary school to a sometimes homework middle school. But the thing to remember about the middle schools is that they use block scheduling, so the kids are given time during those long block classes to do their work, so most of the time the homework is just what they didn’t get too or fooled around during class and didn’t finish. If you have a 90 minute class, there should be enough time during the school day to do any necessary drilling or longer projects.

Wait why are they in 90 minute blocks if the teacher isn’t using that time for instruction, demonstrations or projects? There shouldn’t be time for homework or horsing around, they are only in school 6 hrs as it is

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Starting in 2023-24, they will be offering more advanced options for middle school. (So not accelerated content but going deeper on content.)

2. It was not less rigorous than my elementary, which had a no-homework policy. I'm personally in favor of no homework in elementary.

3. Middle school is a tough age. Greatness drops off for sure because...puberty. Kids going through puberty on different timetables under one roof.

As noted by another PP, I think giving some homework in the later grades of elementary is helpful to prepare students for suddenly getting homework in 6 classes in middle school. On the other hand, APS is solving that issue by significantly limiting homework in middle school and subsequently in high school.

So, yeah, "greatness" definitely takes a nose-dive and it has nothing to do with puberty.

Homework is fundamentally inequitable.

Many students don't have stable environments at home to perform homework, no quiet space, no desk, maybe bad internet, or their parents aren't home or speak english so can't help (and you know some parents DO help). On top of that, many are caring for younger children, or working in the family business in the afternoon/evenings.

Because of this, homework has been shown to increase the achievement gap, and thus will be eliminated throughout APS eventually.

Infuriating. Race to the bottom. Equity is supposed to be about giving support to bring up those who need it. This approach is about squishing everyone down.

Parents with resources will supplement so their kids will have homework anyway. Maybe I’m cynical but schools really can’t equalize for all the disparities in life.

YES!
And nor SHOULD schools be expected to equalize for all life disaparities. Education is a tool and a pathway to opportunity and overcoming economic, social, and academic disparities. But every person is not equally talented in all areas - there are, and always will be, differences. Part of life - and an aspect of life all kids need to learn to deal with and try to overcome.

Public schools have to be equitable or they will be sued nonstop. Colleges have a lot of latitude in admissions and that is the time when differentiation can start.

Again, "equity" is not the same as "equal." Public schools can be equitable without dumbing down for higher-performing students. Equity does not mean that every student has the same capabilities and the exact same support systems outside of school. Schools are not responsible for outside support systems and should not be expected or required to go about the business of education from the "least common denominator" approach. Nobody can expect every student to graduate from any individual school with the exact same experience or level of achievement in every area. The suggestion that that is what is meant by "equity" is ridiculous.

Rip Van Winkle here apparently fell asleep in 2019 and just woke up. This is exactly what they mean when they say “equity” now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Starting in 2023-24, they will be offering more advanced options for middle school. (So not accelerated content but going deeper on content.)

2. It was not less rigorous than my elementary, which had a no-homework policy. I'm personally in favor of no homework in elementary.

3. Middle school is a tough age. Greatness drops off for sure because...puberty. Kids going through puberty on different timetables under one roof.

As noted by another PP, I think giving some homework in the later grades of elementary is helpful to prepare students for suddenly getting homework in 6 classes in middle school. On the other hand, APS is solving that issue by significantly limiting homework in middle school and subsequently in high school.

So, yeah, "greatness" definitely takes a nose-dive and it has nothing to do with puberty.

Homework is fundamentally inequitable.

Many students don't have stable environments at home to perform homework, no quiet space, no desk, maybe bad internet, or their parents aren't home or speak english so can't help (and you know some parents DO help). On top of that, many are caring for younger children, or working in the family business in the afternoon/evenings.

Because of this, homework has been shown to increase the achievement gap, and thus will be eliminated throughout APS eventually.

Infuriating. Race to the bottom. Equity is supposed to be about giving support to bring up those who need it. This approach is about squishing everyone down.

Parents with resources will supplement so their kids will have homework anyway. Maybe I’m cynical but schools really can’t equalize for all the disparities in life.

YES!
And nor SHOULD schools be expected to equalize for all life disaparities. Education is a tool and a pathway to opportunity and overcoming economic, social, and academic disparities. But every person is not equally talented in all areas - there are, and always will be, differences. Part of life - and an aspect of life all kids need to learn to deal with and try to overcome.

Public schools have to be equitable or they will be sued nonstop. Colleges have a lot of latitude in admissions and that is the time when differentiation can start.

Again, "equity" is not the same as "equal." Public schools can be equitable without dumbing down for higher-performing students. Equity does not mean that every student has the same capabilities and the exact same support systems outside of school. Schools are not responsible for outside support systems and should not be expected or required to go about the business of education from the "least common denominator" approach. Nobody can expect every student to graduate from any individual school with the exact same experience or level of achievement in every area. The suggestion that that is what is meant by "equity" is ridiculous.

We went from a homework elementary school to a sometimes homework middle school. But the thing to remember about the middle schools is that they use block scheduling, so the kids are given time during those long block classes to do their work, so most of the time the homework is just what they didn’t get too or fooled around during class and didn’t finish. If you have a 90 minute class, there should be enough time during the school day to do any necessary drilling or longer projects.